Reminton '58 loading handle?

W

Weird Guy

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I have two black powder pistols. The first one I ever got was a Ruger Old Army, and recently I bought a Colt '51 Navy in .44 caliber.

I was looking at getting another pistol (a shiny, stainless one) to add to the collection, so why not expand and also make it the Remington 1858. I have a question about the loading handle first, before I decide to get one or not.

The ramrod handle comes down and there looks like a "T" handle part that you can pull forward to drop out the cylinder and put in a new cylinder. My Ruger has a special screw on the side that you can turn 130 degrees with just your thumbnail and pull off the ramrod bits, including the center rod that the cylinder rotates around (sometimes called the spindel or arbor).

I know that the spindel of the '58 is seperate from the ramrod handle, which makes it different than the Ruger. Does the spindel of the 1858 pull right off the front of the revolver, or does it have a catch and stays on the frame, but still allow you to roll the cylinder out the side of the frame?
 
Place Remington on half cock.
Drop loading ram down.
pull cylinder pin straight out until it stops
Potate cynlider out of frame.
The cylinder pin is slotted so that it can be pushed in or out freely past the screw that holds the loading lever on the frame. When cleaning the revolver remove the loading lever and the pin will slide right out for cleaning and lubeing .
Some people have a problem at first taking out the cylinder because they try to take it straight out . You must rotate the cylinder as you slide it out because of the stars on the cylinder. If I remember right you rotate it counter clock wise to remove it and clock wise to replace.
After a while you can do it all so fast you wont even think about it.
I believe I could remove an empty cylinder and replace it with a full one in less 10 seconds. Hope this helps, Mike
 
Mornin RK, Good explaination on the Rem... I just wanna add to what you said about the stars on the cylinder. The hand pushes up on the cylinder's star, so you must rotate the cylinder clockwise as you grip it to remove and to insert the cylinder. By doing so you are folding the hand up out of the way. Most of the time it'll fall out from the half cocked when you pull the cylinder pin.
Go for the 1858 Rem everyone should have one in they're shooting collect. One or more...HeHe!
 
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You guys seem interested to describe how to roll the cylinder out the frame, but the thing is I already know that. I do that with my Ruger.

I was just asking about the loading handle and the pin that the cylinder rotates on. Can you pull the cylinder pin completely off the front of the gun, or is it held in place? I think Remington Kid says yes, but it wasn't really clear because he mentions a screw.
 
To remove the cylinder pin, remove the screw that holds the rammer lever in place, remove the rammer, then the cylinder pin can be completyely removed from the frame. The cylinder pin will NOT come out any other way. Hope this helps.
 
Looked like RK told you that in the first reply Weird Guy...the rest was helpful icing on the cake. He knows a Ruger ain't a Rem so he tried helpin ya out...:D HeHe!

The cylinder pin is slotted so that it can be pushed in or out freely past the screw that holds the loading lever on the frame. When cleaning the revolver remove the loading lever and the pin will slide right out for cleaning and lubeing .
Click to expand...
 
Remington 1858

This is beyond the last post, but the hodgdon manual says that the 1858 44. Remington limit is 25 grains of hodgdon 777 . But there are two kinds of 1858's , steel frame and brass frame, with the steel being much stronger . How much more powder has anyone attempted to put into a steel frame versus a brass frame.
In much of advertising , it claims the 58' Remington as the most powerful handgun of it's time, but the Walker Dragoon was made prior to the 58'. I have personally used roughly 27- 28 grains, 777, fffg.
 
Both Brass framers and Steel have the same cylinder though, right? Shouldn't hurt the Rem Brassers much like it would a Colt Brasser. You aren't attempting to pull the arbor out of the frame with a brass Remington. The accuracy load I use in my Rems (.44) is 28gr of Goex FFFg BP. If following what Hogdon tells us about using 15% less by Volume 35gr of Goex FFg is equates to 777 FFg @ 29.75gr. FFg is recommended to be used in Revolvers, FFFg even hotter is recommended for use in Shotshell Loading. As far as I know. I Just use Holy Black. I'd guess 28gr of 777 FFFg is a stout load, and very safe.
 
thanks

I am going to look some more. Some guy at the range said my rem. would take more powder than reccomended because it had a steel frame.
 
From what I have been told all imports it to this Country have to go thru the Proof House and are proof tested, don't quote me, to something like 30% more than recomended. ergo you have aProof Stamp Shield on your Italian Guns. For what it's worth...I don't use max loads in anything I conider having for a long time. Nor are max loads as accurate as I have found.
As for brass vs steel frames the brass Rems are very strong compared to Colt Brassers as I said. But even Brass allows MFG. states are not to be used with cartridge conversions...so, No brass ain't as strong as steel frames. But they will both shoot 40gr of BP safely...don't know for how long on either.
 
If you want to change cylinders, you don't have to pull the cylinder pin all the way out, just until it stops. On the 1861 model, you don't even have to drop the lever, just pull the cylinder pin straight out.

Jim
 
re loading lever

Yeah , you just drop the ramrod a little bit so not to block a cylinder hole, and pull forward on the "T" handle till the thing on the end stops it short of leaving the frame. Then roll the cylinder out of the frame. There is a demonstation of it at www.cabelas.com under black powder pistols, - tutorial video.
 
360JP, This will help you see just how much powder you can use in the 58 Remington .44. When I posted this there were many people you just flat out told me it couldn't be done and they have tried it. Well, I have been doing for several years along with others on this site and it makes for a great Deer hunting load. We have taken several white tail with this load and none of them have gone over 40 yards. We keep the shots at 25 yards and under but really no reason to other than the fact that I want to make sure I make a good hit.
Now that I'm useing Pyrodex"P" instead of Goex 3f I cut the load down to 38g
only because to me the Pyrodex"P" is s a little stronger. If your useing Goex 3f and the 200g conicals you have to leave out the wad or you won't have room to seat it.
Here is the link and good reading and arguements over the right way to measure the loads. I just use a powder measure set to 40g by volume and that's what I stick with when useing Goex 3 fff. Hope all this helps you a little, Mike
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190241
 
Rk that posting just gave me reason to check some flask spouts against my powder measurer. and put 40gr of powder in 3 differant 1858 .44 cylinder makes, Armi San Paolo, Pietta. and Uberti. I shook the flask with 10gr, 25gr, 30gr and 60gr spouts against a cap tin so they'd be full. They all measured to the line on my adjustable volume powder measurer. Then I proceeded to fill a chamber of each cylinder, that I mentioned above, with 40gr of BP. On the Armi San Paolo room left about 1/2 a round ball. Pietta the same 1/2 a ball, Uberti I put 40gr in it and a round ball just below the surface of the cylinder face. But only not enough room for a Lee conical bullet.
Best I can figure is that some cylinders may but cut a little differant than others. Therefore Rk's has plenty of room where someone elses may not. That's just a hunch on my part though. I guess if unsure about it and it really matters, do what I did check measuring spouts against your measurer. Or even check your measurer. I'm sure a mine and glad of it hell I've been usin it for many Moons...
Here's a pic not too good but I think it'll work(Uberti Cyl.)

photo1.jpg
 
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This might or might not be good news, but I finally found a BP measure I like, locally, about .400 OD, about 2 1/2 inches long, 5 to 45 grs, except it's marked to 50, square adjustment shaft, setscrew, and at 45 it is within 1 1/2 grs, weighed, of fffg Goex.

Now, this one I can live with. Small enough OD to pour into both .44 and .36 chambers. Then again, the Traditions plastic flask throws 18 grs or so, a double throw would be Rem load.

Shoot, hope it warms up a little tomorrow, gettin' antsy.

Cheers,

George
 
re measure and reply

first, I am gonna get brave and run some 30- 35 777 fffg through it next time I go out, secondly i got one of them flasks for $20.00 that fill a spout with 25 grams after tipped over, and it looks like it cuts loading time in close to half, compared to my old powder measure. The old one is like 120 grains and like 3" long , this new one is way better, but the old one measures more than the flask when compared.
 
JP do me a favor, don't use more than 25gr of 777 FFFg that is even a hot load. FFFg is even hotter than 777 FFg and that is 15% hotter than Black powder FFg. 35 of BP is a healthy load of FFFg BP. Be careful and try the 25gr first. Just fill it with Black Powder and I assure you you'll be happy. Work it up if you think it's safe, I wouldn't do it...and still have my hands and eyes... Ok neighbor.

Are you in Victorville or Barstow JP?
 
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777 fffg

Alright, I have pushed around 27-28 gr. comparing differences between my new and old powder measure though.
I am in Redlands. Use to target shoot and ride motorbikes near the Silver Queen Mine off the I-14 some years ago.
 
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