What difference does it make to me what sort of ML someone else decides to hunt with?
It makes no difference at all, provided that it's legal. But I'm advocating for change to what IS legal. Right now, in many states, all the doodads are legal, so more power to you (and me) - I use all the advantages as well. That's what I started the thread (and why I put it in Hunting, not BP - because it's not *really* a BP type subject matter any more, at this point, is it?) It interests me, because I personally will use whatever the law allows, since hunting is tough on public lands (might be different in less populated states where game is more plentiful and less educated). But I would *prefer* that the law limited me and everyone else, so that we're all on equal footing, advantage wise, to make a true, fun primitive season. Until then, I'm going to use every advantage that Tom, Dick, and Joe Redneck have.
So it makes a huge difference in terms of a the normative question of "what SHOULD be legal?", since it doesn't make sense for the "exception to swallow the rule". It makes no sense to have a ML season at ALL when the ML rifles are MORE advanced than some centerfire brass case rifles (as Wyosmith pointed out). It's simply pointless and senseless - why bother with this nonsense at all if the hunters aren't "handicapped" in some manner, and there's no "fun factor" of feeling primitive by using a primitive arm?
So it's very simple: Either change the ML seasons to "use any gun you want" (i.e. keep the additional season dates, but make any centerfire legal for regular gun season, legal for this early season)... OR, implement some rules to make it actually a bit more primitive, like Colo. has done (no scopes, no conical bullets)... but I'd go a bit further than Colo.
What I *think* that you probably actually hate is the attitude that I too hate, which is "it's primitive season, you ought to using using LESS than what the law allows or you're a nincompoop". That attitude makes no sense, because why should anyone limit themselves when other fellow hunters will have the advantage in that season?
Because that makes sense - to dislike that holier-than-thou, nevermind the law attitude. But it does not make sense to be against what I'm proposing. It does not make sense to be in favor of the status quo - i.e. to have a special season which isn't special in any way shape form or fashion - the ONLY thing special about it, is the gun makers get to take more vacations and drive bigger cars, because they're selling more guns for no good reason at all, with the same capabilities (save for follow up shot speed, which is not needed anyway).
You really cannot disagree with what I'm saying, in a principled way, unless I'm missing something. Because if you think that every technology under the sun *should* be legal in every season outside of archery, then you'd simply be advocating for what I said above, which is "just another additional gun season" - which is fine. I'm all for that. I'd agree with you. But to advocate for the status quo is just senseless, unless you see some *reason* to make a distinction as to why hunters, during this special season should have every advantage under the sun that other modern centerfire rifles have *EXCEPT* speed of follow up shot! What would be the principle upon which that distinction is based? Let's be Davy Crockett folks, or just have an additional early gun season. I'm for either one. Let's pick one and stick with it! (on a state by state basis). I like both equally. But the status quo is just absurd, except for Colo. and similar states who have at least some limitations (sadly, they allow inlines / 209s, but at least require round balls and "iron" sights, with "iron" including fiber optics - ugh). By the way, if I remember right, Penn. has a "true primitive" type season, where Hawkens are popular. May be other states, too.
Incidentally, the main use I see for inline muzzleloaders (and there is one potentially, I think), if the state laws were changed in line to what I'm proposing (and for actual more primitive arms like the Hawken/Pennsylvania/ Kentucky type rifle even if no laws are changed from the status quo), is for a WROL scenario.
Suppose that there are ZERO components anywhere for reloading and no ammo. But suppose you can get sulpher, saltpeter, and charcoal, and make your own BP. Well, you can much more easily cast round balls than conicals, and most importantly, you don't need the brass case... you DO need a primer or cap, so ok -- hopefully you stockpiled those when times where good -- but, point is, it's a potential WROL weapon which *may* have an advantage over a modern centerfire rifle (either an inline or a more traditional muzzleloader), if you have primers/caps, and the ability to cast balls and make homemade BP. That's the main reason I'm still interested in "primitive" - excuse me, I mean muzzleloading weapons, because the state I'm about to move to has scant few ML-only hunts, of extremely minor importance.
So, I agree with your basic premise, that I should not care (and don't), what you use during the "ML" season, and vice versa (you shouldn't care what I use, and hopefully don't). Whether an inline or matchlock, who cares, right? I'm perfectly fine with that - do whatever you want within the confines of the "maximum" technology allowed by law (howitzers are not legal for example). Same exact thing applies during regular gun season. I couldn't care less whether you use a gun, ML, or bow during gun season, nor should you care what I do - again, as long as it's all within the confines of the max allowed by law. Same thing during archery seasons. Traditional guys shouldn't care if one uses compounds, and compound guys shouldn't care if one uses crossbows.... again, provided it's within the max allowed by law. But being against a holier-than-thou attitude, which I am, has nothing to do with advocating for a change of the seasons/laws, to actually help people have more fun, and actually provide a special season for those with special skills (I'd be all for a primitive archery season too - stick bows and recurves only), regardless of whether I'd participate or not, probably wouldn't, provided it was fairly short in duration so that it didn't greatly cut into gun seasons. Same thing with MLs - lets' have a *short* - say 5-8 days true primitive rifle season, similar to what my understanding is of how Penn. does it. Or just keep the dad-blasted current 9-day early season, but open it up to anything that's legal during the regular rifle season, instead of having this farce called ML season that's not primitive in any way (ok, sure it's technically named correct, in that the Rem, for example, does indeed load from the muzzle, but it so out of whack as to the original intent of the season as to make it absurd).
