Remington's Motive for Restricting Rifle Sales
- Thread starter DarkStar
- Start date
The VS and the PSS are the identical barreled actions with a 1 in 12" twist rate on both in .308. The only difference is the stock and the finish. Also the VS in .308 is not discontinued. As far as the PSS, there are some distributors that require letterhead but some don't. I've never heard of it being a Remington rule. I think it's more of some distributors wanting to be police only. Hoplite Inc that's in Shotgun News doesn't require any letterhead and they are still selling the 700PSS to anyone with $699 plus shipping. Sometimes these stories get started on post boards and they run like wildfire. Until I see it in writing from Remington I don't believe it. On that note, I had no problem buying my 700PSS last month without letterhead.
Dave, I paid $675 for my VS and they took my Ruger No. 1 in .270 in on trade. They allowed $400 for the ruger towards the VS. All in all I think I came out alright.
As Rob stated above Hoplite is selling the PSS for right around $700. My buddy is waiting for his PSS to arrive as we speak. The only reason I bought the VS instead of the PSS or the LTR is that they don't make either one of those models with a lefthanded action. Hoplite does not carry the varmint or Sendaro models. Don't ask me why, but I did ask them and they said they did not.
[This message has been edited by Fisher (edited October 25, 2000).]
As Rob stated above Hoplite is selling the PSS for right around $700. My buddy is waiting for his PSS to arrive as we speak. The only reason I bought the VS instead of the PSS or the LTR is that they don't make either one of those models with a lefthanded action. Hoplite does not carry the varmint or Sendaro models. Don't ask me why, but I did ask them and they said they did not.
[This message has been edited by Fisher (edited October 25, 2000).]
First off, thanks to everyone for responding to this post. It's always good to get other opinions and points of view.
My understanding from the two dealers I work with is yes, the VS in .308/synthetic has 'returned' by popular demand. But they told me not to bother wanting one... read into that what you will.
Fisher, I'm glad you got your VS. The lefty model surfaces from time to time, nice you hooked one.
Rob01, your PSS, like my 2 recently purchased LTR rifles, were in the pipeline. When that dries up then we'll see how this 'restriction' really holds. Like years ago when Remington marked shotguns 'LE only', they were easy to find.
What I really see is a company severely curtailing production but still publishing the glossy catalog for us to look at. The VS/VSSF line is only theoretical if they are unobtainable due to low and/or no production. The PSS and LTR will still be around for a time, it'll all depend on how much money you're willing to part with.
Remington is starting to look more and more like a company more concerned with all things PC than its history and the part that it played in this country and its history.
Darryl
If in an instant, all your Wishes were granted, your Dreams would be Destroyed...
My understanding from the two dealers I work with is yes, the VS in .308/synthetic has 'returned' by popular demand. But they told me not to bother wanting one... read into that what you will.
Fisher, I'm glad you got your VS. The lefty model surfaces from time to time, nice you hooked one.
Rob01, your PSS, like my 2 recently purchased LTR rifles, were in the pipeline. When that dries up then we'll see how this 'restriction' really holds. Like years ago when Remington marked shotguns 'LE only', they were easy to find.
What I really see is a company severely curtailing production but still publishing the glossy catalog for us to look at. The VS/VSSF line is only theoretical if they are unobtainable due to low and/or no production. The PSS and LTR will still be around for a time, it'll all depend on how much money you're willing to part with.
Remington is starting to look more and more like a company more concerned with all things PC than its history and the part that it played in this country and its history.
Darryl
If in an instant, all your Wishes were granted, your Dreams would be Destroyed...
Just off the phone with Remington Customer Service (1-800-243-9700)
The VS in .308/synthetic: Not scheduled for production at this time.
The LTR/PSS: Considered LE weapons and are sold through LE distributors.
But as the CS rep told me, just because the LTR/PSS are sold through LE distributors doesn't mean you can't find one...
Oh, customer service gets high marks. Very up on product specs and the hold time was none. That was a first for a major gunmaker for me.
Darryl
The VS in .308/synthetic: Not scheduled for production at this time.
The LTR/PSS: Considered LE weapons and are sold through LE distributors.
But as the CS rep told me, just because the LTR/PSS are sold through LE distributors doesn't mean you can't find one...
Oh, customer service gets high marks. Very up on product specs and the hold time was none. That was a first for a major gunmaker for me.
Darryl
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
I don't want to belabor the issue, but consider for the moment a fact of life in today's world: Perception trumps reality. Facts, in political issues, don't matter.
The last thing Remington wants is to be thrown into the "sniper rifle" BS. So, Remington is trying to read the tea leaves and remain profitable. They also don't want to get into a Smith&Wesson brouhaha.
We may not necessarily agree with how Remington's management tries to deal with reality, but I see much less bad motive than I see self-preservation...
FWIW, Art
The last thing Remington wants is to be thrown into the "sniper rifle" BS. So, Remington is trying to read the tea leaves and remain profitable. They also don't want to get into a Smith&Wesson brouhaha.
We may not necessarily agree with how Remington's management tries to deal with reality, but I see much less bad motive than I see self-preservation...
FWIW, Art
This question was asked on another board that is moderated by some industry people. This is the reply from one of them...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>By Charles Petty
No Richard I haven't and those guns have always been found only in the law enforcement catalog and sold only to Remington law enforcement distributors.
I have just finished a review of the LTR and that was one of the topics I asked about. So if your information is correct it only amounts to enforcing an existing policy.
My understanding is that Remington sells them only to distributors of their law enforcement products which included both pump and semi-auto shotguns with a police designation. But the distributor is not restricted from selling it to anyone he likes. To my knowledge there is no "requirement" for a police letterhead or singed dealer agreement for any of the guns.
If a press release (didn't get one), information directly traceable to Remington (their web site), or other verifiable source is stated that's perfect, otherwise it is, at best, rumor or hearsay.
Fortunately I will be spending the weekend with Remington at their annual gala and, if the wine isn't too good, will probably be able to go straight to the horse's mouth... just for y'all.
Dean has nothing on me when it comes to "full service". I will pay any price, suffer any indignity, fly long distances, listen to a few speeches and even force myself to shoot a few quail to get to the bottom of this.
[/quote]
Charlie is, as I type this, jetting off to Florida to "get to the bottom of this"... stay tuned.
------------------
Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
[This message has been edited by Schmit (edited October 27, 2000).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>By Charles Petty
No Richard I haven't and those guns have always been found only in the law enforcement catalog and sold only to Remington law enforcement distributors.
I have just finished a review of the LTR and that was one of the topics I asked about. So if your information is correct it only amounts to enforcing an existing policy.
My understanding is that Remington sells them only to distributors of their law enforcement products which included both pump and semi-auto shotguns with a police designation. But the distributor is not restricted from selling it to anyone he likes. To my knowledge there is no "requirement" for a police letterhead or singed dealer agreement for any of the guns.
If a press release (didn't get one), information directly traceable to Remington (their web site), or other verifiable source is stated that's perfect, otherwise it is, at best, rumor or hearsay.
Fortunately I will be spending the weekend with Remington at their annual gala and, if the wine isn't too good, will probably be able to go straight to the horse's mouth... just for y'all.
Dean has nothing on me when it comes to "full service". I will pay any price, suffer any indignity, fly long distances, listen to a few speeches and even force myself to shoot a few quail to get to the bottom of this.
[/quote]
Charlie is, as I type this, jetting off to Florida to "get to the bottom of this"... stay tuned.
------------------
Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
[This message has been edited by Schmit (edited October 27, 2000).]
Well I just got off the phone with Remington and was told the following:
The 700VS IS STILL in thier production line in .308 and in December is when they get the info on what is going to be discontinued and she said she doesn't think it will be because it is very popular. It might not be being physically produced at the factory at this time but it has not been discontinued so you should be able to get one. And VS stands for Varmint Synthetic which comes in the synthetic HS Precision varmint stock.
As far as the 700P and LTR, Remington themselves only sells to Police Departments and police distributors. She stated that Remington doesn't have a policy on who they can be sold to after the distributor gets them. So if the distributor has a police only policy you won't get one but if they are like Hoplite then you can purchase one.
I hate when all these rumors get started.
[This message has been edited by Rob01 (edited October 27, 2000).]
The 700VS IS STILL in thier production line in .308 and in December is when they get the info on what is going to be discontinued and she said she doesn't think it will be because it is very popular. It might not be being physically produced at the factory at this time but it has not been discontinued so you should be able to get one. And VS stands for Varmint Synthetic which comes in the synthetic HS Precision varmint stock.
As far as the 700P and LTR, Remington themselves only sells to Police Departments and police distributors. She stated that Remington doesn't have a policy on who they can be sold to after the distributor gets them. So if the distributor has a police only policy you won't get one but if they are like Hoplite then you can purchase one.
I hate when all these rumors get started.
[This message has been edited by Rob01 (edited October 27, 2000).]
--My understanding is that Remington sells them only to distributors of their law enforcement products which included both pump and semi-auto shotguns with a police designation. But the distributor is not restricted from selling it to anyone he likes. To my knowledge there is no "requirement" for a police letterhead or singed dealer agreement for any of the guns.--
Schmit, thankyou for providing the crucial piece to this post. The original post I wrote asked the question why Remington would be of late restricting sales of certain firearms. As your post clearly states, these firearms have always been sold through LE distributors, thus, the story of these rifles leaving the market due to a recent 'restriction' would be more a creation of dealers and distributors looking to price gouge on a more difficult to obtain weapon than a change in stance by Remington.
As I've stated earlier, Remington runs their business their way, selling or not selling what they choose. If Remington has always maintained their position on these rifles and always sold through LE as the previous post states, Remington has been consistant throughout. The source of the misinformation and the inflated prices it generated must then lie elsewhere.
Regarding the VS/synthetic in .308, I was satisfied with the answer I received from Remington CS and would anticipate I'll be able to purchase a new VS rifle after the 1st of the year. Not currently in production does not mean discontinued.
Also, thanks to Art Eatman for providing a bit of a reality check. After reading your post I thought about it and agreed, Remington's trying to keep themselves out of the crosshairs and remain in the marketplace, a place I personally would like them to stay. I'd become concerned they were preparing for a S&W part II. But faith is restored...
I think it's time to stop by SWFA and order up that Leupold M1 and some dual dovetails and take that second LTR out of its box and out to the range...
Darryl
(edited for spelling... doh!)
[This message has been edited by DarkStar (edited October 27, 2000).]
Schmit, thankyou for providing the crucial piece to this post. The original post I wrote asked the question why Remington would be of late restricting sales of certain firearms. As your post clearly states, these firearms have always been sold through LE distributors, thus, the story of these rifles leaving the market due to a recent 'restriction' would be more a creation of dealers and distributors looking to price gouge on a more difficult to obtain weapon than a change in stance by Remington.
As I've stated earlier, Remington runs their business their way, selling or not selling what they choose. If Remington has always maintained their position on these rifles and always sold through LE as the previous post states, Remington has been consistant throughout. The source of the misinformation and the inflated prices it generated must then lie elsewhere.
Regarding the VS/synthetic in .308, I was satisfied with the answer I received from Remington CS and would anticipate I'll be able to purchase a new VS rifle after the 1st of the year. Not currently in production does not mean discontinued.
Also, thanks to Art Eatman for providing a bit of a reality check. After reading your post I thought about it and agreed, Remington's trying to keep themselves out of the crosshairs and remain in the marketplace, a place I personally would like them to stay. I'd become concerned they were preparing for a S&W part II. But faith is restored...
I think it's time to stop by SWFA and order up that Leupold M1 and some dual dovetails and take that second LTR out of its box and out to the range...
Darryl
(edited for spelling... doh!)
[This message has been edited by DarkStar (edited October 27, 2000).]