Remington recall, has agreed to replace millions of trigg

[tahunua001]

higher than .1 percent is still way above normal QC practices. Ruger recalled all 200,000 of their SR9 pistols based on a single case of negligent discharge which was able to be replicated in a lab. .005%

 

[reynolds357]

The triggers that are doing this are either worn or out of adjustment. I can quite easily adjust a Remington 700 trigger to discharge when safety is flipped off. Knuckleheads get solvent into the triggers, eat the thread locker away, and then wonder why their rifle accidentally discharged.
The BEST triggers in the world will accidentally discharge if they are out of adjustment.

 

[FrankenMauser]

So for all those that said CNBC did a hack job, lol. Sometimes the truth is ugly.

...That a father pointed a loaded rifle at his son?


Yep, pretty ugly.






I despise Remington. They've been trading on their name for a long time, without any real innovation or improvement to the industry.

But, it is not their fault that people died because of their crappy triggers.

When you point a loaded firearm at someone, it is YOUR fault if they get shot.

 

[tahunua001]

I concur^^^

same could be said for any cerberus product though. all freedom group AR15 style rifles are DPMS built, but bushmaster is the name brand so those are sold for higher price and remington gets a special camo dip to look pertier and gets its own name brand price hike(BTW, the camo dip starts peeling and they look hideous). remington also has their own ACR which gets its own price hike over the bushmaster ACR. we all know what happened to marlin after it was bought by cerberus/freedom arms group/remington arms international/whatever they call themselves these days.

I have not been impressed by the stock of remington 700s ever since the SPS came out. that coating they put on the bolts makes them sound like nails on a chalkboard to me.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Remington knew they did not have a perfect design. Fact is, no one had or has a perfect design. The inventor of the 700 trigger says he proposed a change to the trigger that would have made it safer. His design change was tested and was actually less safe than what it was supposed to improve. They had and have a failure rate that any manufacturer of anything would be thrilled to have. I have never seen the 700 malfunction, other than on you tube. I have seen model 70's fire many times when safety was flipped off. Why is the 700 and issue and the 70 not an issue?
I am not aware of anything mechanical that can perform forever without maintenance.

Nobody has a perfect design but Remington's imperfect design has result in a bunch of injuries and deaths. That is the inherent problem. Remington has claimed repeatedly that there is no problem and as such keeps losing lawsuits. Whether or not Walker's proposed correction was better or worse isn't a relevant issue.

But, it is not their fault that people died because of their crappy triggers.

When you point a loaded firearm at someone, it is YOUR fault if they get shot.

This is only partially true and has been brought up repeatedly in court and repeatedly failed as a defense in court, although it may have reduced some settlements. Regardless of where the gun is pointed, it isn't supposed to go off unless the trigger is being pulled at the time. If it can and does, the gun is unsafe and apparently and repeatedly noted in court, the gun was unsafe by design. That is Remington's fault.

 

[USMC 77-81]

I have personally had my hammer fall a few times when closing the bolt handle, the gun was unloaded every time. I am aware of the potential problem and only cycle with live ammo in areas where shooting is acceptable. I purchased my rifle new in the early 80's before lawyer proof triggers and it is excellent, no creep or overtravel and crisp. I've never even considered altering or changing the trigger. I will keep what I have and be judicious when handling it. I WILL NOT SEND IT IN TO BE FIXED!

 

[redrick]

I can understand you not sending it to Remington for repairs , but not fixing it at all when you know there is a serious problem with your rifle , because you know it has happened on your gun is beyond negligence .

 

[USMC 77-81]

Redrick, I understand and appreciate your concern for the safety of myself and all others. Please be advised that when I chamber a round and/or move the safety to the fire position the barrel is pointed toward the ground, a log or some other object which will readily absorb the bullet or at the target. My concern is minimal as long as I remain aware and do my part. Remain vigilant and keep your powder dry.

 

[reynolds357]

USMC 77-81, I understand your point. All you have to do is adjust the sear engagement a miniscule amount and you will have a properly functioning trigger.

 

[USMC 77-81]

Thank you very much Reynolds. There is one aspect of my hammer dropping inadvertently which I've always wondered about. Each of the 3-4 times it happened was after sitting in the gun safe for an extended period (2-3 years) without the action being cycled and, as I recall when cycling the action it had a different sound and feel. As you may be aware, the hammer is cocked upon lifting the bolt handle which makes a distinctive sound and it 'Snaps' up. The few times my hammer dropped, the sound and the snap were absent. Perhaps you or another may care to comment on that.

 

[reynolds357]

The sear is out of adjustment or the mechanism has some trash in it. The former is most likely the culprit.

 

[Crankylove]

Regardless of where the gun is pointed, it isn't supposed to go off unless the trigger is being pulled at the time

Any deaths or injuries cause by the problem triggers (if they are a problem) are not the fault of the gun, or the manufacturer, but the operator. Don't point a firearm at anything you don't want to put a bullet into. It's a pretty basic safety rule.

If you drive down the highway with your hands off the steering wheel and crash, is that the cars fault, the manufacturer, or the driver?

 

[emcon5]

In this case, because Rem knew of the defect from BEFORE releasing to the market and opted NOT to fix it and NOT fix it despite problems being reported.

<citation needed>

 

[Doyle]

<citation needed>

It's in the original link. The designer testified (before he died) that he advised Remington that the design was flawed way back in 1948.

 

[emcon5]

It's in the original link. The designer testified (before he died) that he advised Remington that the design was flawed way back in 1948.

<valid citation needed>

I assume you mean this:

But the CNBC investigation revealed that even before the gun went on the market, Walker himself had discovered a potential problem with the trigger he designed. In a 1946 memo, he warned of a "theoretical unsafe condition" involving the gun's safety—the mechanism that's supposed to keep the rifle from firing accidentally.

This time, click on the link on the word "Memo" and go read what Walker actually said in it. The important bit is the last line.

this change will be incorporated in the drawing as soon as tool procurement is completed

In other words, he found a problem, and fixed it. Now why wouldn't they mention that?

There is another memo from Walker advocates adding a trigger block to the safety, and what that would involve, in the manufacturing process:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/CNBC/Se...Remington_Under_Fire/Documents/Rem_Doc_09.pdf

They also say that the cost would be 5 1/2 cents per gun, which is certainly minimal, but unit cost and the cost of making the change are not the same thing. They do not mention tooling and setup costs, and depending on where they were in the design/manufacturing process, this could be a substantial setup cost.

I agree that a trigger block is a good thing to have on a safety, but that does not mean that a safety without a trigger block is unsafe. There are lots of rifles without a trigger block safety out there, for example the Mauser 98 and 1903 Springfield actions.