Remington R51

H

Hank R

New member
Why is everyone so vehement about the Rem R51? When Ruger, S&W and others have had quality control recalls in recent time, I heard no such negative comments about it . Is there a double standard for a company that has been in firearms business for 200 years and has succeeded where others have failed? Just a thought. Hank
 
You need to look at some of the pictures of the shoddy workmanship on the original R51. I don't know if the problems and workmanship have been corrected, but I think the R51's time has come and gone.
 
Remington should have known better... simple as that.


It was an epic fail.

There is a difference between a recall based on a faulty part/batch or simple issue that they quickly discover and fix...

And a total recall due to fundamental problems, and then promise a fix and return of pistols that is months down the line, and fail to meet that. Then months after their promised deadline, still no word.

Epic fail... They dropped the ball hard.
 
For me, the failure was made worse by the fact that so many of the R51's problems were immediately apparent to owners and reviewers. I cut manufacturers some slack when problems with a particular component become apparent after 1000 rounds are fired. When so many of the guns fail right out of the box, the manufacturer must accept a higher level of blame.
 
When so many of the guns fail right out of the box, the manufacturer must accept a higher level of blame.
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This. Many of those guns should never have shipped given how obvious the problems were. It suggests a complete lack of basic QC.
 
" but I think R51's time has come and gone". I do not completely agree , because If they correct the problems , I think they may sell because the R51 fills a niche for a segment of the shooters that other designs don't. My 2 cents--Hank
 
There was an article in the Jan 1915 issue of "Guns & Gear" that interviewed one of the Remington engineers on this R51 project. Freedom group managers wanted the R51 out sooner rather than later to compete with the new Walther CCP. Remington Engineers knew there were problems when they went from the design phase to the manufacturing phase because the "gas breech block" had issues with "tolerance" and proper fitting when gas would enter, and warned Freedom about this problem. The managers would not listen and now they have egg on their faces. Can Remington correct the problem? They think so.
 
I think they may sell because the R51 fills a niche for a segment of the shooters that other designs don't.
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I'll admit upfront that I know very little about the R51, but what niche is that? I was under the impression that Remington's R51 was just another small 9mm and if so just about every major company has one now. The only thing I can think of that it has that most of the others don't is the grip safety, but the Springfield XDS has one so its not exactly unheard of in small single stack 9mm's.
 
It's an all metal single stack in 9mm.

Most options are polymer.


It is also a size that is big enough for a good grip for most users.


Plus it looks neat, and has an interesting action type.
 
The "niche" is that it is a gas-delayed blowback design that will most likely have less felt recoil and an easy slide to rack. These features make it more appealing to those who have arthritis, the elderly , and some females with less strength to operate the smaller carry pistols.
 
I have no direct knowledge of, and have never handled, the "new" R51.

However, the problems with the Remington 51 go back to the original. Remington had to find a way around some Browning patents on the locked breech mechanism, so what they came up with was a buffered blowback design. The design was complex, very sensitive to parts tolerance and cleanliness, and very sensitive to ammunition parameters. The Model 51 was designed by John Pedersen (of "Pedersen Device" for the '03 Springfield fame).

I strongly suspect that the designers of the R51 sought to bring forward this buffered blowback design (for historical reasons; the Browning patents having long since expired). They may well have gotten a "working prototype" to work, but as anyone in this business knows, there is many a slip between working prototype and production examples. Chambering the pistol for 9mm (versus .32 ACP and .380 ACP for the Model 51) only complicated matters further.

If you want an all steel, single stack, carry-sized 9mm, there are better designs of proven reliability. The SIG P239 is one.
 
The original 51 was designed by John Pedersen in 1917. It was only in production for 10 years . I have one in 380 and it is a wonderful pistol . They sold only 65,000 during that time and had to compete with the Browning design which was cheaper and had been in the market longer. It also had to compete with small revolvers that were more popular during that time as well. That said , I am keeping my fingers crossed in hope of the new and improved R51 in 9mm that should be out in about 2 months. Hank
 
Other companies have received criticism, but the criticism has been lessened by the fact that they came out with basically sound designs which, although they had a higher than acceptable rate of problems, were successfully tweaked and became reliable. The Remington fiasco looked worse to pistol enthusiasts because, as previously stated, the company appears to have rushed a product to market either without fully evaluating its reliability or ignoring negative findings in that regard. The fact that they have not been able to correct the problem in a timely manner reinforces the impression that the engineering phase was incomplete, poorly done, or both.
 
Hank R said:
Freedom group managers wanted the R51 out sooner rather than later to compete with the new Walther CCP.
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And, Walther's CCP has been plagued by its share of problems, too!

TailGator said:
The Remington fiasco looked worse to pistol enthusiasts because, as previously stated, the company appears to have rushed a product to market either without fully evaluating its reliability or ignoring negative findings in that regard.
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Walther also rushed their CCP to market with similar lack of evaluations, made worse by the CCP being made by their 'BB Gun' facility at Umarex rather the the Ulm plant which produces their quality line of pistols.
 
There is nothing in the design of the R51 that is so wrong that it can not be fixed. If the new roll out is successful, the naysayers, and the Remington "bad-mothers" will have egg on their faces too.
 
the naysayers, and the Remington "bad-mothers" will have egg on their faces too.
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I think most of us hope this will be the case! The alternative is dismal to have to think about.
 
Supposedly the problems came between the design, and prototype which were functioning fine, and production when the bean counters cheapened them up to keep the price competitive with guns of a less expensive design.
Still hope they can get the R51 right, and keep it affordable. Really liked the feel of it.
 
You can bank on the negative but that in no way will affect the outcome , especially if it is successful. I heard the same kind of BS when several other designs came out, including the one I was armed with in 1966 , the M-16. It has been around longer than any shoulder fired weapon in U.S. history. There are several other examples as well. It is easy to be negative because it most often does not require critical thinking , which seems to be lacking here.
 
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