Remington is pulling up stakes! Bye Bye New Yawk!
- Thread starter Mike Irwin
- Start date
Not to mention they still run a 900-1000. 
Looks like DPMS doesn't trust the MN legislators to keep an "Assault Weapons" ban from becoming Law. With the money Bloomberg is dumping into MN, I don't blame them.
Though a bill seeking an assault weapons ban never became law, a spokesman for DPMS Panther Arms warned it could have consequences. Ballard told the House panel that, in response to such a law, "Our employees would be sent home, our jobs gone, many of our suppliers jeopardized."
http://www.sctimes.com/story/money/2014/05/16/st-cloud-gunmaker-moving-alabama/9175723/
Though a bill seeking an assault weapons ban never became law, a spokesman for DPMS Panther Arms warned it could have consequences. Ballard told the House panel that, in response to such a law, "Our employees would be sent home, our jobs gone, many of our suppliers jeopardized."
http://www.sctimes.com/story/money/2014/05/16/st-cloud-gunmaker-moving-alabama/9175723/
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
As of this mornings news paper. A small plant in South Central MN the home of DPMS Weapons who happens to be owned by Remington is being closed and its product moved to Huntsville Al. Since DPMS wasn't unionized none of its employee's will be granted a transfer. {That I thought was a little harsh of Remington considering some of DPMS employee's were working since day one of DPMS business opening 1985.} 68 jobs lost. Know where's the loss of jobs Llion encountered. But to a small community where DPMS was located. It was a very disappointing and hurting notification I'm sure.
IMHO: I sense there was allot of Southern Charm flowing recently in one of Remington's Executive Board Rooms. It appears to me Laws passed out East have little say in what I believe was nothing more than a business decision by Remington's Elite and a gaggle of Alabama politician's.
IMHO: I sense there was allot of Southern Charm flowing recently in one of Remington's Executive Board Rooms. It appears to me Laws passed out East have little say in what I believe was nothing more than a business decision by Remington's Elite and a gaggle of Alabama politician's.
More important, MN is run by anti-business, anti-gun Liberals, one of the highest taxed states in the Union along with high energy costs and far to many Government Regulations. Remington would be out of their mind to keep any high cost, highly taxed operation in MN.
Smart move Remington, get out while the gettin is good.
Smart move Remington, get out while the gettin is good.
Sure Shot Mc Gee said:
This may or may not be true. Remington has said this repeatedly,
We are working hard to retain as many people from the affected facilities as possible."
I have been living in Union country my whole life, so, if your comments are indeed true, I would bet money that it is coming from the Union and not Remington. Pretty simple really, tell Remington you must higher/transfer Union workers first or else.
I think you should consider it "Harsh" on the part of the Union and not the company that is being strong armed.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
I could comment on this remark. But this time I think its better to take the High Road concerning a fellow Minnesotan comment.
Per the Minneapolis Star Tribune Dated: 5-20-2014
As far as I know. Yes MPLS & St. Paul are somewhat gun restrictive believing having the largest population centers in the State. The rest of the State not so.
FWIW: Than again for you to applaud Remington's strategic move is your Right. But I highly doubt you would feel that way if you happened to be one of those loosing their job. I really think its time to show a little empathy towards those losing their jobs and less criticizing of organized labor my friend.
refference: http://www.startribune.com/business/259884731.html
Like I said, this is a Union Rule and not a Company rule. No Union that I know of allows bumping Rights for non-uniom employees. Non-Union companies do it all the time as they are in search of the best employees. Unions, best means nothing, seniority means everything.
Bin there done that. Moving on is part of life, it happens, looking to blame the Company when the State, it's citizens and it's politics are to blame is far to common.
Far to many people in this State think that the sole purpose of a Business is to provide them with a job. When in reality their purpose is to Make a Profit and when the State and it's citizens dig to deep into that profit, time to move on.
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Remington will hire new employees in Huntsville at lower wages. Those new employees will have little or no experience in the manufacture of guns. Look for severe growing pains like those at the Marlin plant after Remington bought that company and fired the employees.
After Remington took over, Marlin quality took a nose dive. Recently 75 employees of the Marlin plant were laid off due to poor sales.
http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/story/25372886/remington-arms-lays-off-several-workers-due-to-low-demand
After Remington took over, Marlin quality took a nose dive. Recently 75 employees of the Marlin plant were laid off due to poor sales.
http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/story/25372886/remington-arms-lays-off-several-workers-due-to-low-demand
I have been involved in a few company relocations. Moving employees is expensive, very expensive. Many that move get homesick and move back within a few months. It's not an easy decision on either the company or the employee to move.
The real issues of moving a company deal with the methods of operating within the company. A well doccumented company that runs a proven process control system can be moved and be up and running very quickly. On the other hand many old companies run on whats called gray power. This is where there are systems but they are not followed or updated. They have a few old timers that answer all questions and make all decisions. This type company falls apart when you lose the gray power. Most of these type gray power companies are union companies where systems are in place but the company runs on people.
I helped move a large company from Iowa to NC and it was the best doccumented process driven company in all my experiences. The problem was they did not follow the systems, they were eye wash systems to fool third party entities. They ran of gray power. It took a year to get that company back up and running. There was nothing on paper that even came close to how the products were built......
Time will tell
The real issues of moving a company deal with the methods of operating within the company. A well doccumented company that runs a proven process control system can be moved and be up and running very quickly. On the other hand many old companies run on whats called gray power. This is where there are systems but they are not followed or updated. They have a few old timers that answer all questions and make all decisions. This type company falls apart when you lose the gray power. Most of these type gray power companies are union companies where systems are in place but the company runs on people.
I helped move a large company from Iowa to NC and it was the best doccumented process driven company in all my experiences. The problem was they did not follow the systems, they were eye wash systems to fool third party entities. They ran of gray power. It took a year to get that company back up and running. There was nothing on paper that even came close to how the products were built......
Time will tell
thallub said:
As I do not have any details about the non-union DPMS plant concerning their wages and benefit package, I cannot comment on the validity of your post.
I will ask you to help us out here and post details to verify your above comment.
What were the salaries of the Non-union employees at DPMS and what will be the new salaries at the new unionized plant in Huntsville?
What was their benefit package and what will their new Union benefit package consist of?
What skill levels and experience will be required by Remington to fill these New position in Huntsville?
Also I would like to know where you got this information.
Does anyone know that the Huntsville plant will be union? Does it matter that much?
This move isn't about the union one way or the other. The union will have little to do with it. Huntsville has a good many union shops as it is.
Unions are not what they were a few decades back. They have been in a rout for about 30 years now. Concession contract after concession contract have driven down the standard of living of millions of working people in this country and in industry. Union leaderships have agreed to two and three wage tier schemes,pension and retirement plans have been gutted and become a joke, health care benefits more expensive, etc. The refusal to mount a fight against this and reliance on the Democratic party have significantly weakened the unions. There is no contract a boss is bound to keep any longer, no rule they cannot break, if it is in their interest to do so. Likely the union officials may not fight it and will sell it to the members as a job saving scheme.
Wages and benefits at UAW organized plants in Michigan and the mid west are in many cases below the packages at non union plants in Alabama, Tennessee, etc. VW recently wanted the UAW to organize their plant in Tennessee in order to better control the workforce and draw them into a company/management scheme to get more work out of them. The UAW was more than willing to go along with this but the workers there rejected it.
Remington is following the recent trends of other industries in moving to a state with less regulations, taxes, etc. Fewer of those pesky environmental and workplace safety regs. Patriot Coal can dump coal slurry and ignore mine safety all year long for years.
In Texas folks built a fertilizer plant and ran it for years with no blast walls surrounding it and homes within 50 yards. It blew up and killed many. They cared not a wit for regulations, there were few.
The only force that can guarantee a better life, safety and health is the workers ourselves. The unions have to be remade.
Remington is making a move. At the non union subsidiaries workers may be offered a job if they move. If the workers are union they will likely see the same and maybe some small relocation allowance and maybe keep their seniority on the job. But don't count on that. Most folks who will get a job will be management.
We don't know how they plan to reorganize the plant and the production. Will they combine AAC, Bushmaster and DPMS? Keep them as separate entities? They may not know yet.
tipoc
This move isn't about the union one way or the other. The union will have little to do with it. Huntsville has a good many union shops as it is.
Unions are not what they were a few decades back. They have been in a rout for about 30 years now. Concession contract after concession contract have driven down the standard of living of millions of working people in this country and in industry. Union leaderships have agreed to two and three wage tier schemes,pension and retirement plans have been gutted and become a joke, health care benefits more expensive, etc. The refusal to mount a fight against this and reliance on the Democratic party have significantly weakened the unions. There is no contract a boss is bound to keep any longer, no rule they cannot break, if it is in their interest to do so. Likely the union officials may not fight it and will sell it to the members as a job saving scheme.
Wages and benefits at UAW organized plants in Michigan and the mid west are in many cases below the packages at non union plants in Alabama, Tennessee, etc. VW recently wanted the UAW to organize their plant in Tennessee in order to better control the workforce and draw them into a company/management scheme to get more work out of them. The UAW was more than willing to go along with this but the workers there rejected it.
Remington is following the recent trends of other industries in moving to a state with less regulations, taxes, etc. Fewer of those pesky environmental and workplace safety regs. Patriot Coal can dump coal slurry and ignore mine safety all year long for years.
In Texas folks built a fertilizer plant and ran it for years with no blast walls surrounding it and homes within 50 yards. It blew up and killed many. They cared not a wit for regulations, there were few.
The only force that can guarantee a better life, safety and health is the workers ourselves. The unions have to be remade.
Remington is making a move. At the non union subsidiaries workers may be offered a job if they move. If the workers are union they will likely see the same and maybe some small relocation allowance and maybe keep their seniority on the job. But don't count on that. Most folks who will get a job will be management.
We don't know how they plan to reorganize the plant and the production. Will they combine AAC, Bushmaster and DPMS? Keep them as separate entities? They may not know yet.
tipoc
Armorer-at-Law
New member
Each of these brands has significant separate value. I expect the branding and marketing will remain separate. However, the machinery and skill to manufacture all of these products is much the same or at least has significant overlap. That will likely be combined for efficiency. Each group has different focus for R&D and design, so that may stay separate as well. Just my guess.
Double Naught Spy
New member
LOL, the unions haven't prevented refinery explosions at Tesoro and other localities with spotty safety records. Unions didn't prevent gun legislation. To suggest that a union would have prevented the explosion is silly. Unions are not a panacea answer.
tipoc said:
No, I do not know if the New operations in Huntsville will be Union or not, I hope not.
The reason I brought it up is the Newspapers around here are making comments like this.
In the letter to the DEED, Remington said the St. Cloud layoffs “are expected to be permanent.” It added, “This is a nonunion facility and the employees have no bumping rights.”
Of course this is from the "Media" and could very well be intentionally misleading , but if true, I take this to mean that workers from Non-Union Plants (DPMS) will not be allowed to apply for positions at the new plant as Union workers get first dibs. The only reason I can think of why a company would give Union workers first dibs is if the new plant was a Union shop.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Remington can claim they are doing "everything possible" to retain existing workers, but their history doesn't back up the statement. When they bought Bushmaster, the operation was in Windham, Maine. When they moved the operation to NY, they canned all the Maine workers.Sure Shot McGee said:
Now for the human interest stuff. The original owner of Bushmaster, who was in his 70s and very comfortably retired, was upset at seeing his old employees getting tossed aside. Happily, he still owned the real estate, so (even though he didn't need to) he simply set up a new company (Windham Weaponry), hired all the old workers, and went right back to it.
That kind of loyalty is something found only at a considerable distance from Washington, DC. Politicians don't understand it, and if they think about it too much their heads explode.
Are you serious?? Huntsville and much of the surrounding area was built on and continues to support a workforce with advanced military and aerospace industry R&D and production skill sets. Unless building a semi-auto rifle somehow became more complicated then components for rockets, satellites, and spacecraft then I think the learning curve will be pretty short. And as for lower wages, it's a non factor since the cost of living is substantially lower than most other states, while quality of life is greater in many ways. I left the north east over 20 years ago and could NEVER afford the house and lifestyle I have now, living within an hour of Huntsville, even while making less than I would had I stayed. Oh, and the employees could actually own and use the same firearms they were building, without having them neutered to satisfy some moron politician.
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You are correct the many empty unions of today have not prevented the decline of health and safety on the job. I also said why. Only the workers ourselves are capable of guaranteeing health and safety on the job. This requires solidarity. In the course of doing this it will require rebuilding what unions exist and forming new ones. Not because an organization has magic properties but because active solidarity requires organization.
tipoc
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Unions aren't the topic here, fellas
I read a few days ago on the "Gun Wire" where Remington was going to start out with the Bushmaster and the 1911's (Remington R1 & etc.) as their first firearms productions in Huntsville.
But as the old saying goes: Believe nothing you hear, nothing you read and only half of what you see.
I hope they open an "outlet store".
But as the old saying goes: Believe nothing you hear, nothing you read and only half of what you see.
I hope they open an "outlet store".