Remington 870P MAX Best Tactical/Home Defense Shotgun?

Without wanting to contribute to a "Mine's BEST!" war, I'll toss the following in.

When you ask "What's best for HD?", you'll get the pump guys & you'll get the semi guys.
The best of each is pretty good, neither is the automatic BEST overall.

My experiences:
Benelli M4 shoots fast, is more complicated to run, additional steps in operation, bolt has to be in a certain condition for reloading, you have the bolt release to remember to deal with.
It CAN be very effective, you do have more going on & it requires (in my opinion) a more involved learning curve.
I also found it a trifle on the heavy side.
Can't be short-stroked, but is somewhat ammo sensitive.
Spare parts can be difficult to find, it's not particularly user serviceable.

My PMAX has been here for five years. A good Remington 870 is extremely simple to learn & use, does not care in the slightest where its bolt is when you load the mag tube, will cycle & fire any round appropriate to the chambering thereof, has a world of mag extensions & other aftermarket accessories available, and can actually be easily repaired & maintained at home in End Of The World scenarios by stocking up on spare parts available from Remington or Brownells that drop right in.
The PMAX also comes with an excellent light, one of the best on the market, much superior to any of the bolt-ons with dangling cords & stick-on pressure pad switches.
The 870 can be short-stroked, typically its most common "malfunction".

As far as the Express models go, how many threads on gun forums have you seen with some variation of "Extraction Problems!" in the title, followed by "Just got a brand new Remington Express...." in the first sentence? :)
I'm not seeing that with the PMAX.
Nor am I seeing repetitive mention of rust on the PMAX like I am with the Express guns.

I've worked with an Express, and it did work. I'm not saying they're junk.
I have the money to go for better, and it went on the PMAX.
One thing to remember on the Express Model is that it wasn't built to be better, it was built to be cheaper.

PMAX does have, in my opinion, a better grade of overall finish, including the chamber.
It comes with excellent sights, an excellent stock, and an excellent light.
To duplicate all that & replace the MIM extractor & carrier dog follower spring, mag spring, and sear spring on an Express would run into quite a bit more money after the initial so-called "cost savings".

If you're happy with a lower level of performance, by all means go with an Express. Replacing the MIM extractor would be the minimum I'd do with it, along with some judicious chamber honing.
That polymer triggerplate, incidentally, is not "better" than the alloy versions. My gunsmith tells me he's seen them break up around the pinholes near the top, has never seen an alloy triggerplate break.
Either CAN be broken, obviously, but you may note that Remington still uses the alloy version on its police guns.

If you want the Cadillac of pumpguns for defensive uses, I agree with Dfaris.

If you're willing to trade the more complicated drill of the Benelli & its ammo sensitivity for a higher rate of fire, that works too. :)

And, the post quotes by Ship are outdated.

Denis

Correction: SOME are outdated. :)
 
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Which brings me back to the point that I've never been dissatisfied buying the best in it's class, when I could afford it.
I've often been dissatisfied with the budget model that's "just as good as".

There's nothing at all wrong with an Express gun. It's just not as well made and finished as a premium Police model.
The 870P Police gun is the best in it's class.
 
You mention reliability... There is nothing offered in auto loader, in my own opinion, that can give me the peace of mind that an American made pump gun will...
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My Benelli semi-auto has NEVER had a failure of any kind. I have put everything thru it, and gone quite some time between clean jobs. I dont use a shotgun for HD, but if i did, i would have no worries what so ever with my auto, and would GLADLY trust my life to it.
 
Golden, I wouldn't even care if a gun had a million failure free rounds thru it... It is about peace of mind and that equates to a confidence that makes the shooter comfortable thus more likely not to choke/jerk a shot...:o
Brent
 
It don't end there... You have little or no hand finishing of the guts and chamber of the express...

Also, aren't at least one of those 2 items you mention staked in place? If so you have taken one repair cycle out of the life of the receiver. They have a limited amount of repair cycles before it can no longer stake down the part.
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No, the extractor & carrier dog return spring are not staked in place. Both parts can be replaced in under 5 minutes. Only tools needed is a small flathead screwdriver for the extractor. The only parts that are staked into place are the shell stops. The ejector is riveted in place (and is not machined anymore), and the magazine tube is brazed into place.

The guts of the Police are not hand-finished either. A part that is put into a Police is the exact same part dropped into a Express or Wingmaster except those 2 parts. The list that Ship Ahoy posted is severely out of date. Most everything was true 5 years ago, but not today, nor when comparing any Express with a extended magazine tube.

I'm just trying to explain you aren't gaining any real advantage buying a Police model over a Express. There isn't some magical area where master gunsmiths build 870 Police models with tactical forges. They are built in the same factory with the same parts (expect for 2).

If you don't believe me, you can email JD over at AIP Tactical who has been to the Illion, NY factory for the 870 Armorers Course a couple of times & seen how much of that list is BS.

Or

You can just look at the Remington factory parts list.
 
The list that Ship Ahoy posted is severely out of date. Most everything was true 5 years ago, but not today, nor when comparing any Express with a extended magazine tube.
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Are you 100% POSITIVE of every word in the quoted statement? If any is not true, that would be a VERY slanderous statement...

BTW, I ain't got a dog in this hunt as I am a 100% loyal Mossberg user/customer for EVERY shotgun I will ever own...
Brent
 
you could buy two or three mossberg 590a1s WITH Surefires attached for what that joke costs. it retails in the 1500 dollar range, which is downright laughable for a pump shotgun. especially one from a manufacturer whos QC standards have taken a verifiable hit in recent times. remington fans will continually try to pound that square peg into the round hole, but it's a fact the money's better spent on a Mossberg these days UNLESS you find a good old Wingmaster or 870p trade in, and even then it's sixes.


hope that answered your question.
 
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$1500??? The Remington 870P Max is going for less than $900. And yes, i have heard about Remington's declining QC, but does anyone have first-hand experience with poor quality from a Remington 870 (especially the Police series) recently?

Thanks for all the helpful info guys; im still debating whether or not to pick up this gun (870P max) next week.
 
I agree the Benelli M4 and FN SLP look really nice (and $$$). But isn't a pump shotgun such as the 870P MAX much more durable and reliable than an semi-automatic?
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Answer: Benelli M3. You can go from pump to semi and back again with the flip of a switch. It's the best of both worlds.

If I had 990 bucks to spend on a shotgun, I would definitely get the Benelli M3, rather than an 870.
 
Nothing wrong with a PMAX, but you can find them for around 1000. so dont pay the 1500 price tag noted earlier in the thread. I personally like Remington 870s own 5 of them I think. When I return from Iraq I want to pick up a 20" police with wood furnature (also want to pick up a few Sigs and some more 1911s) but I am sure you would be hapy with the PMAX. I also own the M4 and a 590A1. IF something bad were to happen and the world were to end, a 870 would be one gun I would leave with. I was issued a wingmaster while in the Marines for 3 years instead of the M16. I know both inside and out and when it came time for command inspections, I had little to worry about with the 870 since one CO could not even figure out how to cycle the action after he closed it.

I however do not like pistol grip stocks on shotguns, even the M4 I went and found a field stock for it, ended up selling the collasable stock for a DAM nice price a couple years back. The 870P in the photo below now has a similar speed feed stock with tubes in it like the M590 has, but it started life as a model 4449, which is a std tube parked police with ghost ring sights, taht impact guns ordered for me for 620-640?? Cant remeber it has been 6-7 years. Then I found a factory 2 shot extension on ARFcom for $40 I think it was. Then added a surefire foregrip that was sold used at a gunshop for more than half off. For a few hundered less than the MAX (att he time) I had the same thing. It really is a nice shotgun and I am sure you would like it and would serve you (hopefully never needing it) well.

shot1.JPG
 
where do most people buy there upgrades? locally or online? I have a 870 express magnum, and I want that side saddle, and 2 shot extension tube.
 
One good source is Brownell's, another is Midway.

For magazine extensions, there are a number of brands available. The Remington factory version is really nice, but more expensive and harder to get.
Probably the best for price versus quality and availability is the Choate.
It's been around almost as long as the Remington factory version.

Note that if you want to install an extension on an Express with the standard 4 shot magazine, you'll have to remove the "dimples" in the magazine tube.
Do a search here under "Dimples" and you'll find lots of info on the various methods of dealing with this.

Also note, that the Express sporting guns have a longer fore end and will interfere with some side saddles. You can use a shorter side saddle, cut the rear of the factory fore end off, or install a police length fore end.
 
Dfariswheel
Senior Member; Some people may fault you for not buying a cheaper Express gun or even one of the very cheap foreign made pump guns....
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My 18.5" H&R Pardner Pump ($169 new) is identical to an 870, but it has a milled steel receiver.

I only bought the P&P because it was cheap. At the time, I did not realize it was built so much stronger than any Mossy, Winchester or Remington.

BTW - Nothing screams "Mall Ninja" louder than a bayonet on a HD shotgun :p
That just cracks me up.
 
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but it has a milled steel receiver

The Mossberg's and Winchester 1300 have aluminum receivers.

The Remington 870 and 1100/1187 have, and always have had high grade forged and milled steel receivers.
 
I've never had alot of experience with the 870P MAX so i can't say anything bad about it, but my experince with my M590A1 is flawless. Either you can't go wrong there both used for Law Enforcement and Military so that alone should give you light to the situtation. It all boils down to preference, try shooting both and see which feels better.
 
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