Here we go again. I posted links to the other threads to try and avoid a further thread derail, nothing you are posting here is anything that has not been covered in the other links.
jmr40 said:
Mike Walker, the engineer who designed the gun and trigger discovered the problem in 1946. In 1948 Mr. Walker redesigned the trigger and proposed a change. Remington management declined citing an extra 5 cents per gun cost even though they knew this defect was possible.
An internal memo from 1947
http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/editorialfiles/2012/05/03/2226704_Rem_Doc_03.pdf
That says there is a problem if the parts "Are not within design limits" If the parts are out of spec, it does not mean that the design is defective.
Also, the 5¢ unit cost is a red herring. That may be how much it cost additionally in materials per unit, but that does not mean it is the actual cost to make the change. Stopping production and retooling can be very expensive.
jmr40 said:
I can hardly read that, but OK. I agree, a trigger block on the safety is a good idea. It does not automatically mean that a safety without a trigger block is defective.
That being said, the old 700 safety design that locked the bolt was stupid.
jmr40 said:
No one can take an honest look at the evidence and not conclude that the design is flawed.
Well,if there was actual evidence I might agree with you. But what has been presented as "evidence" really isn't. I am sorry if I don't buy a theory of a professional "expert" witness for ambulance chasers, nor the views of a news network with a history of bias. Especially when the "expert" admits under oath that he has never actually got a Remington 700 to do what he claims they do.
jmr40 said:
That the design works right 99% of the time does not mean it doesn't fail.
Anything mechanical can fail The fact that something fails is not automatic proof of a flawed design.
jmr40 said:
With 5 million rifles out there even a 99.9% success rate still leaves 5000 rifles that could fail. Numbers I've seen indicate that Remington has received somewhere between 5000-10,000 complaints from consumers over the years that their rifles have done this. Remington used to keep records on such things, but "cleaned out" all of their files in the 1980's. There is one document that survived. If this were a typical year of having 133 rifles returned to the factory then 133 X 60 years = 7900 returns.
http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/editorialfiles/2012/05/03/2226709_Rem_Doc_08.pdf
Of which only 44 were verified. 89 of the rifles they found no problem. Many of the listed problems are also not what all the lawsuits were about.
jmr40 said:
Remington has been sued over 100 times for this. No other gun company is being accused of this defect.
Hey, jump on the sue Remington bandwagon! They will settle, they ALWAYS settle, because it is cheaper than going to court, even if they win!
jmr40 said:
In the 1980s Remington did redesign the guns safety making it possible to unload the chamber while the gun was still on "safe". This did not address the problem, but did reduce the risk considerably.
The old 700 safety design that locked the bolt was stupid.
There have been a couple fatalities attributed by the ambulance chasers to these "defective" triggers. The fact remains, that none of them would have had so much as a scratch, had the gun owners been practicing simple, basic safe gun handling.
Jeff Cooper said:
RULE 1
ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
The only exception to this occurs when one has a weapon in his hands and he has personally unloaded it for checking. As soon as he puts it down, Rule 1 applies again.
RULE 2
NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY
You may not wish to destroy it, but you must be clear in your mind that you are quite ready to if you let that muzzle cover the target. To allow a firearm to point at another human being is a deadly threat, and should always be treated as such.
RULE 3
KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER TIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
This we call the Golden Rule because its violation is responsible for about 80 percent of the firearms disasters we read about.
RULE 4
BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET
You never shoot at anything until you have positively identified it. You never fire at a shadow, or a sound, or a suspected presence. You shoot only when you know absolutely what you are shooting at and what is beyond it.
Now lets let this drop. Everything has been covered in previous threads, two of which I linked above. We don't need to get another thread locked.