Remington 14 in 25 Rem and old Weaver K4 scope

My Aunt Lillian hunted for many many years in Mifflin County, Pennsylvania with her Reminton 141 in 25 Remington. None got away. Uncle Myron hunted with the same rifle in 35 Remington. None got away.

The 25 has what it takes to penetrate the chest wall and scrambble up the chest organs. Its a deer cartridge from yester-year that still gets the job done within reasonable distances.

Good hunting to you.

Jack
 
Hey Jack, PM inbound...

I, too, hunted Mifflin County, as did my Dad. Mom still lives in Lewistown.

Pennsylvania never allowed semi-auto rifles for hunting big game. I think they're still outlawed for big game.

Remington pump rifles were always HUGE sellers in Pennsylvania.

I used to hunt at the Short Drive Camp back of Milroy (sadly long gone), and Remington pumps were always extremely well represented, from 14s to 141s to 760s to 7600s when they were introduced.

I worked for a couple of years at the Lewistown Sentinel in the late 1980s and early 1990s. We'd have a contest every year, and first prize was a Remington 7600 in .270 Winchester. The .270 was also a very popular cartridge.
 
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I should have 60 pieces of .30 rem brass coming tomorrow in the mail. Got dies, bullets and plenty of powder. Should have loads worked up by this weekend. Will let you know how it shoots.
 
Regarding creating .25 Remington from .30 or .32 Rem. cases, doesn't the act of necking down a cartridge cause the neck to lengthen? I seem to recall that it does.

Yes, generally it does. The amount, of course, will vary with the individual case, and how much you are taking it down. Necking .30/.32 to .25 ought to cause the neck to grow a bit. With Rem cal brass, that's all you are doing, basically, necking it down to .25. If the cases were a bit below max length before forming, they may not need further trimming. Or they might wind up just a bit over max length and need some trimming.

Now, forming from the Win rimmed cases might be a wash with .30/32, necking down lengthens the neck, but moving shoulder forward and reducing body taper shortens the case a bit. IT MIGHT balance out, might not. I have no way to tell without trying it to see what results.

I would expect forming .25Rem from .25-35WIN would leave shorter than spec necks.
 
Amish automatic....:D

Been a long time since I heard that one. Hunted in Potter County, the Genessee country, a long time ago. I have heard pumps called Amish Autos, before (though not by any Amish).

Pennsylvania's ban on autoloaders for hunting has existed a long time. SO pumps are quite popular there. Probably the highest concentration of pump rifles in the country is in Pennsylvania.

one thing about Pennsylvanians, (outside of the craziness of urban areas), they tend to be pretty level headed. No one is all RKBA over the ban on semiautos for hunting. Because they see it for what it is, a GAME LAW.

Essentially, you can have all the semi autos you want, you just can't hunt with them. Not a RKBA issue. Admittedly, its been 40 years and some since I was in PA, but that's the way it was then. IF that's changed, please educate me.
 
As far as I can determine, semi-auto rifles have been off limits for hunting in Pennsylvania (large OR small game) pretty much since the first successful semi-autos came out in the early 1900s.

Semi-auto handguns are also not legal.

But... oddly enough...

Semi-auto shot guns are legal for small game and waterfowl, but not for big game.

Still haven't been able to figure out how that came about.
 
14's and 141's

On one of my last visits to PA, a guy was retiring from the gun shop business. I was in his shop poking around. Said he sold lots of guns to the Amish, that was in the Martinsburg area. (Bedford or possibly Blair Co). Yeah, school closes, business close, first day of buck season in PA.

There were quite a few 14's and 141 for sale my last visit. No .25's or .32's sighted, many .30's and .35's. Many drilled an tapped too. Seems like folks selling great grand dad's rifle sort of deal. I've got a tremendous sentimental attachment to those old Rem pumps. And good grief, the machining involved, on hand run tools, wow.

I've heard the term Amish machinegun.
 
The rings are different. The bottoms are solid while the tops are split. There is one mounting screw on each side of the mounts. The rings look like they can be loosened to move the scope but not remove the scope from the rings. Any information on this scope and ring combination. I'll post pictures tomorrow.

In less I missed it, no one mentioned the rings.

They are the old Vertical Split rings. Meaning the scope has to be taken apart to get it in the rings. Wasn't a problem with those old Weaver's because they weren't sealed. They were filled with Dry El Paso Air.

They fit the period of that rifle. The rings, if you can find them cost a heck of a lot more the any of the new rings you find out there. They are in demand now because of the surge in popularity of the CMP's Vintage Sniper Program.

I had a hard time finding a set for my M1903A4.

DSCN0110.JPG


Personally I think you have a real find there. I'd keep it just as is with the understanding the Scope isn't sealed and you may have fogging problems. That shouldn't be a problem, that's not the type rifle one would take on a extended hunting trip in damp rainy areas.

Congrats on your Rifle, that will be a great one to pass down to kids and grandkids.
 
Quote:
The rings are different. The bottoms are solid while the tops are split. There is one mounting screw on each side of the mounts. The rings look like they can be loosened to move the scope but not remove the scope from the rings. Any information on this scope and ring combination. I'll post pictures tomorrow.

In less I missed it, no one mentioned the rings.

They are the old Vertical Split rings. Meaning the scope has to be taken apart to get it in the rings. Wasn't a problem with those old Weaver's because they weren't sealed. They were filled with Dry El Paso Air.

They fit the period of that rifle. The rings, if you can find them cost a heck of a lot more the any of the new rings you find out there. They are in demand now because of the surge in popularity of the CMP's Vintage Sniper Program.

I had a hard time finding a set for my M1903A4.



Personally I think you have a real find there. I'd keep it just as is with the understanding the Scope isn't sealed and you may have fogging problems. That shouldn't be a problem, that's not the type rifle one would take on a extended hunting trip in damp rainy areas.

Congrats on your Rifle, that will be a great one to pass down to kids and grandkids.
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

Kraig, Thanks for the reply on the rings. That was the conclusion my gunsmith and I came up with. The scope had to be taken apart to remove it from the rings. Neither of us had ever seen anything like them. I don't think fogging will be a problem in our deer season. It gets pretty cold in Nerthern WI during at that time. I leave my gun in my garage during the gun seasson. If I bring them in the warm house for the gun condensation builds up in seconds. Oh I will try firing it today:cool:
 
Here is an update on shooting my new old Remington 14 in .25 Remington with vintage weaver K4 scope. I obtained some fired .30 Remington cases. No idea on how often they were fired, but trimmed them to a uniform length and reamed the primmer flash hole. I necked them down to .25 Rem using a 7mm case forming/trim die first and then the .25 Rem full length sizer die.

My first loadings used .25-35 Winchester load data with Hogdon CFE 223 powder, Hogdon list 28.5 grains of CFE 223 as max for the .25-35 Win. Why CFE? I used it for several calibers and had two Lyman powder measures set up on my bench with CFE in them. I was loading Hornady 117 grain round nose bullets. Loadings were with powder charge increments in .5 grains starting at 25 to 27.5, five rounds each at 100 yards. Powder charges were weighed on a Sartorius electronic scale which measures to .002 of a grain. Bullets were seated to the canular groove, COL 2.525 inches. All groups were pretty dismal, 6 to 8 inches. The gun has an excellent bore and I expected better. Back to the reloading bench!

First thing, I examine the Hornady round nose bullets. I started weighing the bullets and notice extreme variations in the weight of each bullet. Never had I weighed bullets before. Weights varied from 117.1 to 117.7 grains.

To get the bullet weights more uniform, I decided to make them into hollow points. With my foster case trimmer I put one bullet point first into the case collet. Then another bullet base first into the collet. This allowed the collet to hold the bullets in the same position. For the point reamer, I used a drill bit which miked .193 inches. I sharpened the drill bit with a greater angle than normal. This fit into cutter side of my foster trimmer. Bullets noses were reamed to approximately 115.50 grains. They all didn’t ream to exactly the same weight, but I was able to group them in groups of 115.40, 115.45, 115.50 and 115.56; plus or minus .01 grains.

I again loaded five rounds each with CFE powder charge increments in .5 grains starting at 25 to 27.5. Fired groups were much better. The worst fired group being 3.5 inches. The best group was 1.5 inches with 27.5 grains of CFE 223.

After firing all of these, I had six remaining prepped and primed cases. So I decided to try some Speer GS 120 grain bullets. Weighing these bullets show a .2 to .3 grain variance between bullets. I selected six bullets that weighed 120.3 grains + or - .1 grain. I loaded 3 rounds with 27.5 grains and 3 rounds at 27.9 grains of CFE 223 powder, seated to 2.525 inches. The 27.5 load fired a 2.5 inch group. The 27.9 grain load fired a 1.75 inch group. Clearly good enough for hunting, but more testing will be done.
 
Test to your heart's content.

If you do get something to shoot better than that 1.75" count yourself lucky.

If you can find a load that goes under 1MOA, count yourself blessed.

The old Remingtons (and all their comtemporaries) were good for hunting accuracy, and if you found one that was actually a tackdriver, it was a pearl of great price, so to speak.
 
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