Remington 14 in 25 Rem and old Weaver K4 scope

W

wachtelhund1

New member
Just picked up a Remington 14 in 25 Remington with an old Weaver K4 scope. The gun is in good condition with an excellent bore. The scope is a very old Weaver K4, probably the same vintage as the rifle. The scope is clear and useable, but windage and elevation adjustments are exposed. The rings are different. The bottoms are solid while the tops are split. There is one mounting screw on each side of the mounts. The rings look like they can be loosened to move the scope but not remove the scope from the rings. Any information on this scope and ring combination. I'll post pictures tomorrow.
 
Congratulations! Model 14s are slick little rifles. My bet is that the scope is considerably newer than the rifle. Remington quit making the Model 14 in 1934, and Weaver was established in the 1930s IIRC. The rings sound like the old Beuhler rings, but may be a different type. Pics would be good.
 
Scorch, Thanks! As I said the rifle is in very good condition. I have .25 Remington dies and 500 Hornady 117 gr round bullets plus 200 86 gr Remington flat nose bullets. Now looking for .30 Remington brass. Here are some pictures of the weaver scope and rings/mounts. My question is how was the scope put into the rings? Not that I want to remove the scope. It is clear and unless it has internal mechanical faults, I plan on taking a deer with it this year.

VintageWeaverscope005_zps58135d14.jpg



VintageWeaverscope002_zps9ff6c896.jpg


Remington14001_zpsaf57d16a.jpg


Remington14Large_zps547e1349.jpg
 
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Lucky you! This is a very neat little vintage outfit. My guess is, if you remove the mount from the receiver, then take out the top clamp screws, the rings will spread apart to free the scope. But as you say, I wouldn't do it unless it was necessary to change scopes.
 
Awesome little rifle. Should be fun working up a load for it. IIRC the .25 rem is simply a rimless version of the .25-35 Winchester.
 
No, it is .25 Remington, Remington's answer to the .25-35 Winchester, but rimless.

For a long time the ammo was unavailable, but now Buffalo lists it - but, as usual, they say "out of stock".

Jim
 
James--Thx! Is there load data available for the 25 Remington?

The 25-35 was a sweet caliber. Would be nice to see that come back from obsolescence. Shot one quite a bit in my youth---a pre 64 model 94 in very nice condition.
 
"candy cane " pumps

Like those spiral magazine old Rem pumps. They were highly regarded by my clan back in the day, though I never saw a .25. I have a Model 14/.30 Rem in the safe. Belonged to a great uncle, my Dad bought it from him in the late '50's.
 
This is a .25 Remington. I love getting new and old guns and working up loads for them. I have some load data for the .25 Rem taken from online and old reloading books, some of it is specificaly for the Remington 14. I have a set of Lyman dies, but the bullet seater is missing. I ordered a new seater from Lyman and was told I would have it in five days, that was two weeks ago. I also have 200 86 grain Remington flat nose bullets, no longer produced. This weekend I'll be picking up 500 Hornady 117 grain round nose bullets, for $100.00 at a gunshow. Brass is holding me up, but not for long. I just purchased 60 pieces on GB.com. My gunsmith is also searching for brass. Another option is to use his lathe and make the brass from 30-30 Win by tuning down the rim and cutting an extractor grove.
 
the Remington model 25 was chambered in .25-20 and .32-20.

As noted, the .25 Reminton is a rimless version of the .25-35 Winchester. Load data for the .25-35 can be used for the .25 Remington.

Hodgdon's reloading center has a LONG list of loads for the .25 Winchester.

You can use the same dies to load both, but you have to have the correct shellholder.

Brass can be made either by necking down .30 or .32 Remington cases, or by necking down .30-30 or .32 Winchester Special cases and turning the rims on a lathe.
 
Load data for the .25-35 can be used for the .25 Remington.
Click to expand...

I wanted to say that earlier but was only 99.9% sure it was true. I don't like giving load data advice unless I'm sure that I'm sure. I'm glad somebody brought that up.
 
As always, it's prudent to start low and work your way up.

In general, the rifles for which the .25 Remington was chambered are stronger actions than the Winchester 94.

The two cartridges are period contemporaries, and were loaded with the same powders to the same ballistics by ammo companies of the day.

I don't have access to SAAMI specs for the two rounds, but I am finding some evidence that the .25 Remington was loaded to slightly lower chamber pressure.
 
My reloading manuals are packed up, so I cannot look this up to verify, but if the .25 Remington is based on the .30 Remington, and the 6.8 SPC was also based on the .30 Remington, could you possibly run the 6.8 through your resizing die for .25 Remington? Again, I can't look it up, so sorry if this is way off base.
 
I have a 7mm Mauser case from/trim die. I plan on using it to start the neck down process of the .30 Remington.

Mike Irwin was correct about the .25 Remington being loaded to lower pressure than the .25-35 Win. .25 Rem was loaded to 36K CIP, .25-35 Win was loaded to 44K CIP.

I believe the .30-30 Win case was loaded to 42K PSI making it a stronger case. An advantage to making .25 Rem cases from .30-30 cases.

As for load data, I was checking Hodgons web site and .25-35 Win load data. Hodgon has a a published load using CFE 223 powder. I've been using CFE for several calibers and have 8 pounds plus. I think I'll start with CFE first in my load development.
 
I have no idea about which round was factory loaded to what pressures, but I do have an old Lyman reloading manual which lists data for both .25Rem and .25-35 under the same heading. (same manual has no data for the .458 Win Mag, but has a note that data will be in a newsletter around Nov 1957)

The Remington line, .25, .30, & .32 were direct competition to the Winchester 25-35, .30-30. & .32 Special. Remington also had the .35 Rem, for which, Winchester had no direct comparable answer.

There seems to be some historical irony here, as current info suggests that the Winchester rounds were loaded to higher pressures, but the Remingtons were in stronger rifles. (the bolt action, pump and semiautos of the day).

Also ironic is the only one of that Remington family to survive commercially was the .35, and for many decades, it only did so in one rifle, the Marlin lever gun!

You can easily form .25 Rem from the .30 or .32 Rem brass (if you can get it). You cannot use the .35 Rem brass to make 25 Rem the .35 case head it too big. (although a necked down .35 Rem might make an interesting wildcat).

You can turn the rims down (and cut an extractor groove) on .25-35, .30-30, or .32SPL brass, and get functional brass, but I think a bit more work will be needed. The .25Rem has the same diameter shoulder as the .25-35, but the shoulder is a bit further forward, and the case body has less taper. SO, fireforming lathe turned Winchester cases would be necessary. AND, since the Win brass is the same length overall as the Rem case, blowing the shoulder forward and reducing body taper by fireforming will likely result in cases that are shorter than .25Rem spec.

You should be able to make ammo that shoots, but they won't be "perfect", necks will be a bit short, compared to .25 Rem specs. (or at least that's what I would expect, never having done this particular conversion).

Considering the amount of labor needed to turn each WIN case (and assuming you have to pay someone with a lathe to do it), I think you might be further ahead to just pony up the cash for Rem brass in .25/.30/32 (whatever you can find), and write off the high cost as the price of keeping an obsolete round alive. After all, you aren't going to be stockpiling cases of ammo for that caliber, are you?
 
Winchester had the .35 WCF, which was introduced in 1903 for the Model 1895, which could be what prompted Remington to introduce the .35 Remington.

The .35 Winchester was more powerful, but it was in a larger and far more cumbersome rifle, and at the time Remington didn't have a rifle that could compete with either the 1886 or the 1895.

Supposedly Remington did, for a brief period of time, offer the .35 Winchester in the Remington-Lee Model 1899 bolt action rifle. I find that to be somewhat suspect, given the time frames involved...

But, I suspect that an even greater influence on development of the .35 Remington was the wildcat .35-30-30, which was developed as a means of salvaging bore burned .32-40s, .30-30s, and .32 Winchester Specials.

The earliest references I've found to the .35-30-30 appear to be around 1900-1905.

So, it would seem, as with the other cartridges, the .35 Remington, while its own new development, was still heavily influenced by Winchester.


Regarding creating .25 Remington from .30 or .32 Rem. cases, doesn't the act of necking down a cartridge cause the neck to lengthen? I seem to recall that it does.
 
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