Reloading order question

Kbrun, I understand why this seems confusing to you, this is because you are doing rifle only which doesn't save time to batch. You'll understand when you start loading pistol and see what the second step is. Rifle dies: full length die, bullet seating die, possibly a FCD. Pistol: resizing die, expander/powder die, seating/crimp die, possibly an FCD. It's that second die that makes batch powder charging a much faster process, rifle does not usually have this process on a single stage.
Yes, the powder thru is not 100% nessecary, you could charge by hand but your slowing yourself down for no reason. You can still see very easily that your charged before seating, I think it would be easier to accidentally grab an empty case rather than being able to visually confirm that all cases are charged at one time and moving any empties away from the bench making only the possibility of a charged case getting a bullet.

I cannot tell from your posts if you understand this or not.


See if this pic helps. All empties put away, leaving this as the only available brass to seat a bullet on. I think it would be much easier to forget to charge a case before seating if done during the seating process and possibly getting distracted. This leaves almost an impossibility of a squib seeing all the charged cases at once. Again, for pistol only since most bottlenecks are difficult to see inside.

 
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I drag out the tumbler and throw everything in. Then I resize and deprime. Then throw them back in the tumbler.

They get sorted and stored in ziplocks until I am ready to load.

When ready to load, I do 100 at a time since there is 100 primers in a box and 100 bullets in a box (I even store by cast 100 to a box).

I prime, then powder them, then seat bullets....all the while doing a QC after each step.

Been doing it this way for a long time.

I had a progressive at one time, a Green Machine, but traded it for another Rock Chucker maybe 35 or 40 years ago and been doing everything single stage for a long time.....except shotgun and that's another story.
 
skizzums said:
Kbrun, I understand why this seems confusing to you, this is because you are doing rifle only which doesn't save time to batch. You'll understand when you start loading pistol and see what the second step is. Rifle dies: full length die, bullet seating die, possibly a FCD. Pistol: resizing die, expander/powder die, seating/crimp die, possibly an FCD. It's that second die that makes batch powder charging a much faster process, rifle does not usually have this process on a single stage.
Yes, the powder thru is not 100% nessecary, you could charge by hand but your slowing yourself down for no reason. You can still see very easily that your charged before seating, I think it would be easier to accidentally grab an empty case rather than being able to visually confirm that all cases are charged at one time and moving any empties away from the bench making only the possibility of a charged case getting a bullet.

I cannot tell from your posts if you understand this or not.


See if this pic helps. All empties put away, leaving this as the only available brass to seat a bullet on. I think it would be much easier to forget to charge a case before seating if done during the seating process and possibly getting distracted. This leaves almost an impossibility of a squib seeing all the charged cases at once. Again, for pistol only since most bottlenecks are difficult to see inside.

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Thank you for clarifying that. I have no experience reloading pistol, and as such didn't realize that a sizing step was done at the same time as putting powder in the brasd. This definitely clarifies the batch method, and is understandable now.
 
Skizzums and perhaps others:
Note that the OP's query had nothing to do with speed of batch method loading vs one at a time method. Instead, his point had to do with which method would most likely result in a failure to charge a case, resulting in a dud round (and worse, possibly firing the next round on the top of a stuck bullet). He was referrimg to rifle cartridge loading in particular where normally fewer rounds per batch would be loaded as compared to handgun loading where the loading process would probably be completely different, usually with a progressive press. But at any rate my response was that the batch method for rifle, using a single stage press and carried out properly by visual examination of the charged rounds while still in a loading block before seating, was the least likely to result in an uncharged case.
 
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Okay. I thought the OP was more just asking why people do it period, when his perception was that it could cause more issues. I was just answering the "why" we do it, and showing a pic to help show why "I" don't believe it would cause a squib scenario. Sorry if I was off course, but I thought my explanation had merit to the OP.

I agree with you that a loading block of charged brass, even rifle, is the safest method, for me anyways. But it is about personal preferences when it comes to rifles because it does not cause inconvenience to do it one way or the other. With pistols batch loading serves a greater purpose than just squib reduction.
 
Thanks for asking our advice.

The O.P. asked a question, but I will address a narrow part of it right now.
KBrun said:
It seems that many of you will fill each case of a batch with powder, then go back and seat a bullet. This seems to be when people forget the powder one way or another and seat a bullet on a second case.
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It seems to me that the most certain way to avoid 1) double charging a case or 2) missing the charging of a case is this:

Start out with two loading blocks with the number of holes in the blocks equal to the size of your batch. Block on your left filled with primed, empty cases bottom-up (with primers visible). This guarantees no case has any contents. An identical, empty loading block on your right.

Pick up one case with left hand and your powder delivery device (dipper, transfer cup, scale pan, whatever you use) with your right hand. Put the powder into the case, transfer the case to your right hand and place the case in the loading block on your right.

NEVER transfer the case to your right hand before it is fully and properly charged with powder. This rule is an essential quality control element.

If you get interrupted, before the powder is in the case, the case is still in your left hand, so you put it (case mouth down, primer end up) in the left loading block.

There is never more than one case out of the two loading blocks at any one time. The process never varies. If there is any doubt about the process, the powder is dumped back into the powder supply and the (one) case in hand replaced in the left block, primer end up and the operator takes a breath and surveys the scene to ensure everything is in place.

Variations on the above algorithm allow swapping left for right (mirror image of my description) use of a single loading block (the bottom-up or bottom-down is still a signal that the case is charged or not charged) and whether you set a bullet on the case mouth immediately after charging the case or wait an do that as a separate batch step is another variation.

I like to set the bullets as a separate step. As skizzums and others have pointed out, the ability to examine the entire batch of charged cases for powder levels being all (visually) equal adds a significant bit of safety.

As I suggested in my earlier post. Your loading bench is an ammunition production facility. Design a factory floor that is safe and well laid out with clear pathways of component flow and tight control points for quality control.

Lost Sheep
 
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I load large volumes of 5.56 / .223 of a progressive press and to date never had a squib but I do expect to have one some day.
As for my other rifle calibers if prefer to load on a single stage using the batch method.
5.56/.223 loads well on a progressive as the case is small in comparison to say 303 Brit ,7.62x54r or 30-06.
It takes some muscle to full length re-size the brass. Even neck sizing I prefer a single stage.
I have loaded larger rounds on my progressive but the brass was de-primed, sized and primed on a single stage first.
When I load calibers other than 5.56/.223 I load less 1k rounds at a times. Usually around 400 - 500 at a session. That keeps me shooting for a good while.
5.56 / .223 is like a Big Boy 22LR.
I burn through that ammo pretty fast.
 
I do one case at a time also. I use the Ammo box they go in when they are done to load with. I take all 100 or 50 out of box. Stack on table. Measure the powder, grab the case,tap it on table, neck down, look inside case to ensure I can see primer, dump powder in case and put in box. When I go to seat bullets, I grab flashlight and look inside all cases as a whole to see they are all even.
Never have had a dud or bad load yet. If you follow those steps you never will.
 
Any reason in particular,...?
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Simple answer is batch loading might be faster IF (and I mean IF) you are using a powder measure and particularly if you can drop powder into 50 cases in a loading block.

could see myself getting in too much of a rhythm and forgetting
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This is why part of your batch loading rhythm must include inspection of case interior with a good light source.

Inspection is not a bad idea even when loading singles as you have been doing.
 
I load in batches. Decap, tumble, resize, trim and chamfer, prime, powde then seat bullets.
I use two loading blocks. I remove an empty case and put it upside down in the funnel, weigh and trickle charge.
Then pick up funnel and turn right side up, install powder.
Put loaded case in other load block.
Repeat 49 more times, then seat bullets.
If this is followed, there will never be a squib load....
 
I load like PA-Joe does. That's how I was taught over forty years ago. I'll use a full block of pistol cases right up to the powder measure, just keep moving to the next empty case. I have very bright overhead lighting in my loading area. This is crucial for spotting any abnormalities.
 
I think that a "NEWBEE" should stick with single bullet assembly for a while. There have been some good points made here for safety. Here are a couple more. If you get distracted for ANY reason (Phone, answer the doorbell, ect.) in the middle of loading a round, dump the case you were working on and start again. Never have more than one open can of powder on your bench when loading. I once dumped the leftovers in the wrong powder can, but realized it right away. I threw away an almost full can of powder because of that. I started loading late in life, but can tell by the amount of primers I have used that I have gone through thousands and thousands of rounds. I have never had one misfire to this day. Some times I have to re-form and really work on specialty brass and it gets very time consuming, but I just figure it takes as long as it takes. That is where the dividing line is in reloading as I see it. Do you want cheap ammo, or ammo that performs better than factory loads?
 
My method is a variation of ones already described, and has been working for me for over 40 years.

I'm not a speed demon, and in fact, I GAVE UP on progressives over a decade ago. My system is simple, and works for everything I load (over 30 cartridges from .22 Hornet to .458 WinMag).

Single loading block, or double matters not. Processed brass, unprimed in the block, base up (clear visual no primer).

Prime brass, place in block, base down. Charge powder, all cases. Inspect entire block for uniform powder level.

At this point, I will either spot weigh about 10% of the charges (plinkers) or each one (serious ammo). Normally I have my measure set to throw just a little light, and bring the charge up to full weight with a trickler and scale.

AFTER weighing, charged case goes back in the loading block, and I put the bullet in the case mouth UPSIDE DOWN. This caps the case, and gives a positive visual that I HAVE CHECKED that case.

Continue until the block full of cases with inverted bullets in their mouths. Then, just put the case in the press, turn the bullet right side up, and seat it.

OK, so its slow. I don't care. 50 rounds in an hour that I have absolute faith in are better for me than 300 that I don't.
 
Different Press = Different Process

I'm currently using a Lee single stage press. Charging the case doesn't require a change to the press so it seemed simpler to complete a case.
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Huh????? What the heck does this mean? A "Single Stage" press in my book means ONE DIE installed to do ONE PROCESS (or stage) at a time. So it is not possible to have a single stage press that lets you do an entire round without making some "change" to the press.

It seems like many of these posts, while containing good info about personal preferences, seem to gloss over the press specifics.

Frankly, I use both processes in the appropriate press. In a single stage, I only use batch with loading blocks. It is quick and easy with my powder measure mounted under my expander die (pistol). In that stage I run the ram up to flair case, prime on the way down, then pause the case under the powder measure when transferring it to the loading block. That way I only handle the case one time for the whole expand/prime/charge stage, even while using a manual powder measure. It is then only natural to inspect the entire batch for equal powder when changing the die for bullet seating.

I obviously do the full round at a time on my progressive press - only way it operates.

I only use my Turret press with auto advance to do one full round at a time. That's the way it operates. It is certainly possible to remove the auto advance rod and then use the turret press LIKE a single stage, but I cannot imagine any reason why I would want to do that - if I want to do single stage loading, I'll use the danged single stage press! If I have dies already installed and properly adjusted in a turret for what I want to load, I'll use the turret with auto advance.

I suppose if I only had one press, and it was a turret type, and I only had one set of dies for sister calibers, I might try and make do sometimes by using the turret like a single stage, but that just doesn't work for me.
 
Mauser69 said:
Huh????? What the heck does this mean? A "Single Stage" press in my book means ONE DIE installed to do ONE PROCESS (or stage) at a time. So it is not possible to have a single stage press that lets you do an entire round without making some "change" to the press.

It seems like many of these posts, while containing good info about personal preferences, seem to gloss over the press specifics.

Frankly, I use both processes in the appropriate press. In a single stage, I only use batch with loading blocks. It is quick and easy with my powder measure mounted under my expander die (pistol). In that stage I run the ram up to flair case, prime on the way down, then pause the case under the powder measure when transferring it to the loading block. That way I only handle the case one time for the whole expand/prime/charge stage, even while using a manual powder measure. It is then only natural to inspect the entire batch for equal powder when changing the die for bullet seating.

I obviously do the full round at a time on my progressive press - only way it operates.

I only use my Turret press with auto advance to do one full round at a time. That's the way it operates. It is certainly possible to remove the auto advance rod and then use the turret press LIKE a single stage, but I cannot imagine any reason why I would want to do that - if I want to do single stage loading, I'll use the danged single stage press! If I have dies already installed and properly adjusted in a turret for what I want to load, I'll use the turret with auto advance.

I suppose if I only had one press, and it was a turret type, and I only had one set of dies for sister calibers, I might try and make do sometimes by using the turret like a single stage, but that just doesn't work for me.
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When I say one round at a time, I am dealing with prepped and primed brass. This means the only thing left to do with the press is seat the bullet. I have a loading block full of primed cases, and as I add powder to each I then seat a bullet before moving to the next case.
 
Thanx, that at least clarifies what you were asking about. You will notice that several of the earlier replies were horrified at the suggestion that you were proposing changing the dies once for EVERY loaded round!

When using a single stage press, I absolutely prefer to have all the charged cases together in the loading block to inspect with a light, just like shown in skizzums' pictures. As far as I am concerned, that is the ONLY way to completely guard against both squib loads and double charge loads. After I have verified equal powder in all, I then place a bullet on top of all before taking them one at a time back to the press for seating. Once the bullets are sitting on top of all the charged cases, I KNOW they have completed the inspection process, and I can even safely wait a day or more before I finish the seating process.

If your process is to pick up a case, charge it and then place a bullet in it, sooner or later you WILL forget the charge step or possibly charge it twice and never know it until you pull the trigger.
 
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