Reloading Hacks

There is a reason I stress an IRON 'O' Ring press, less deflection of the press frame.

And in my 'Opinion' the ram should be LARGER on these presses.
Larger/Harder ram, less deflection.
(Not really an opinion, simply a fact of presses)
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I have 'O', 'U' and 'C' presses. I must have 11 presses that use the same ram. No, that does not mean I have 11 presses with one ram. All 11 presses are cam over presses; in the old days the instructions identified the cam over press as a 'bump press' and now reloaders have mastered the art of the .002" bump?

Question: Am I going to be required to call all of my 'O' presses 'O' ring presses. I have C presses, long before the Internet there were curious reloaders, a few of them decided the open side of the 'C' press allowed for deflection so they added a strap on the open side of the press. Not long after that Herter made a 'C' press with an option to close the open side.

They also developed the 'triple web' C3 and the Super 3 with the open side, the open side kept the 'C' press from being an 'O' press. And then there is that part about the ram.

There is a reason I stress an IRON 'O' Ring press, less deflection of the press frame.
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Reloaders are so preoccupied with neck tension, not so much in the old days. In the old days they tested presses with tension gages, deflection gages and strain gages. That is how they determined the open C press was not as strong as the O press, my 2 favorite presses for less deflection are the U and 2 ram Herter.

I know, RCBS made an O press called the A-2. I did a shop call, seems the smith insisted it was the toughest press in the world, he raised the top of the press .017" while attempting to size cases; BUMP? He was trying to wreck them. I suggested he should have know there was something wrong when lowering the ram he had to brace himself with one foot against the bench. I know; there are so many of you that are confused and that is OK.

They actually tested presses in the old days, in one of my books that gave test results listed a press that was a total failure; and then one day I was at a flea market near NAPA, California; there it was, a dealer was selling commercial kitchen equipment; he had mounted a press on one of his tables, a press he thought was a lemon squeezer/juicer. I never convinced him it was a reloading press, I did convince him he had it mounted upside down for a juicer. The press looked like a spider doing push ups when putting it through its paces. Anyhow I purchased it for $5.00 because he could not figure out how the press could catch lemon juice while it was upside down and then he was missing the part that screwed into the press for squeezing and the bowl was missing.

F. Guffey
 
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No Mr. Morris, I was simply pointing out I had a less than successful attempt at building a rotary press, for a specific case type. Lost interest and chucked it in the barn.

I might also point out that a 'Stroke' is a one way linear movement, as in 'Up' stroke or 'Down' stroke, 'In' stroke or 'Out' stroke.
A direction of force change has to happen, complete stop, reversal of force to complete a 'Cycle'.

Using an offset journal and circular bearing with connecting rod, I could have made a 'Crank' instead of a simple 'Eccentric'.
I didn't want to put that much time/money into the build, having lost interest in the firearm/cases I was working with at the time.
 
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I think we might be using different definitions.

Eccentric:
...
a disc or wheel mounted eccentrically on a revolving shaft in order to transform rotation into backward-and-forward motion
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And that's all they are.

IMG_20130509_145453_344_zpsmtocoxou.jpg


122-004-88F90D06.jpg


Or https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...QAhXKgFQKHX_9BuU4ZBAzCAQoAjAC&iact=mrc&uact=8
 
I get the idea of having a rotary press, especially if you're needing to pump out thousands every weekend. However, where's the fun in reloading now? Not to mention, you best watch it because of something goes wrong you're screwed. For example, powder measure stops working or is dumping half a charge then you come back from dinner and there's 500 rounds in a bin that appear loaded but are really a disaster.
 
Lanier motion ones from ram riding a cam lobe.
Took return springs is the reason I gave up on it.
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Took return springs? Many years ago I was at an airport when I noticed the prop of an airplane was attached to the engine and the airplane was attached where the propeller should be. I was told to leave it as it is because by doing it their way they did not need springs to close the valves. And then there was this helicopter, I ask the people at Hughes Air Craft how do they get away without a tail rotor. I wanted to know how they off set torque. And then one day I was at Lockeed/Martin doing some Univac work, I was waiting for them so I took a walk and saw something I did not know existed. When I came back I explained to them they were not going to believe what I just saw; I was wrong because they were very interested in what I was not supposed to see. I explained to them I saw this little jet rolling down the taxi way and then it suddenly took on VTO characters and disappeared. Many years later I found information on a small jet they were working on called the Hummingbird. They had two, one crashed due to pilot error.

F. Guffey
 
Quick way to lube handgun cases

Getting back to the OP's question, here's one:

To rapidly lube straight wall handgun cases, drop 50 or so in a gallon plastic bag. Spray in a 2-second shot of an aerosol case lube such as Hornady One Shot and twist the top of the bag closed. Shake the bag vigorously for 15 seconds or so. Dump the cases out on a rag or towel and let thoroughly dry.

Lube job done!

Note: I do not recommend using a spray lube for bottle neck (rifle) cases.
 
To rapidly lube straight wall handgun cases, drop 50 or so in a gallon plastic bag. Spray in a 2-second shot of an aerosol case lube such as Hornady One Shot and twist the top of the bag closed. Shake the bag vigorously for 15 seconds or so. Dump the cases out on a rag or towel and let thoroughly dry.
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If one is so economically challenged that they cannot afford even Lee Carbide Dies, that would be the way to go with straight wall cases. But, I was under the impression that Carbide sizing dies had pretty much taken over in the sizing dept.

Nevertheless, I am going to try this the next time (I have been spraying them standing in a loading block...messy!) I do some .30 Carbine cases inasmuch as it is recommended that lube be used despite using a carbide sizer.
 
Oh yes spraying them in a bag works good . I generally use a plastic tub and mix them around with my hand . This way I let them dry in the tub as well as size from the tub . I should add that I only lube rifle cases and not my pistol cases .
 
But, I was under the impression that Carbide sizing dies had pretty much taken over in the sizing dept.
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You are correct. But many of us older reloaders still have the steel dies that require some lube. And prefer them.

First, many if not most of the older steel dies put a very slight taper to the entire cartridge case which made insertion insertion into a chamber very reliable.

Second, the carbide ring is very fragile and has been known to slightly crack and leave a gouge on the case.

Lastly, some of the straight wall cases are not really straight wall (your 30 carbine for example -- 0.3567 at base and 0.3360 at mouth) and may benefit from a die that follows the original factory case dimensions. Carbide dies will only give one diameter to the case.
 
You are correct. But many of us older reloaders still have the steel dies that require some lube. And prefer them.
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I know old reloaders that purchased 4 different set of 38 Special dies without realizing the first set they purchased would size 38 Special and 357 Magnmum cases. And then it got complicated, the sizing die was not threaded for the primer punch and the expander die had a primer punch. And then there was seating and crimping, old reloaders crimped with the old 38 Special, if the case was taller they raised the die for the 357 magnmum.

And then there are those that claim RCBS never made an aluminum die, all of this before the carbide die and I have a carbide die that is not threaded for the primer punch assemble. Anyhow I have a Piggy Back 11 press with a 5 position tool head. None of the die sets with a sizing die that is not threaded will not work on a progressive press.

I have no ideal what it was like working for RCBS, I can only imagine; OK, we got it fixed. No wait! We don't have it fixed but if you will send us your dies, no don't do that let us send you a upgrade.

Again, there were those old reloaders that were sizing the 38 Special and 357 Magnum with the first set of dies because they understood the value of the incline plane The same plane worked when seating and crimping..

F. Guffey
 
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That last bit ^ exactly. .30 Carb is a fantastic and easy example, something WILL go awry eventually if you don't lube. Another fine but less obvious example is 9mm, which benefits greatly from occasional lube, often I will lube one in every 5-7 cases and the entire operation simply works BETTER.

.44 Mag brass? BETTER! .460 S&W Magnum brass? BETTER, EASIER, more enjoyable and less work.

I find it astonishing that experienced and intelligent handloaders can't figure out the benefits of case lube even with handgun brass and carbide sizing dies.
I would think it makes a little more sense to actually TRY it rather than naysay it, but I can see how it is far easier to type than to visit the load bench with an open mind.
 
Mr. Morris,
'Throw' is the industry term for concentric offset in a crank pin, from centerline of said crank.
'Eccentric' refers to an asymmetric, such as a cam lobe on a camshaft.
 
I find it astonishing that experienced and intelligent handloaders can't figure out the benefits of case lube even with handgun brass and carbide sizing dies.
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Can't figure it out or don't care ? There is a difference .

There's also something else to consider . What lube are you using on your hand gun brass ? The home made stuff I use cost $15 to do about 80,000 rifle cases so likely well over 100k of hand gun cases for $15 . Problem with this stuff is it leaves a sticky gummy residue on the case that must me removed .

This is not an issue for me when sizing rifle cases because they get a final tumble when done with case prep . On the other hand I load my handgun rounds on a turret press and I complete all 4 stations at once ( size , charge , seat and crimp ) This would leave quite a bit of lube on the outside of all cases as well as inside of some .

Now I could use a different lube like Oneshot Which I do have but that would cost a lot more . I don't remember the exact number but do remember being quite disappointed in how few a can of One-shot does . I'd say at minimum it would cost $100+ to size the same amount . My thought was , so it takes a bit more effort to size a case . It's not like it's actually hard when they're not lubed so I'm in the camp that I don't care to lube my hand gun cases But I'm sure they would slide in and out much easier .

I'll add that I just started wet tumbling exactly one year ago and I did notice it get harder to size cases that have been wet tumbled . My plan is to try some car wash soap that has a wax additive to see if that lubes the cases a little . I should also add I only load 9mm & 45acp right now . Those are likely the easiest cases to size . I'll start loading 357 soon and may find it better to lube those .
 
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I find it astonishing that experienced and intelligent handloaders can't figure out the benefits of case lube even with handgun brass and carbide sizing dies.
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It depends on the lube. If one puts lube on, one must take lube off. Two extra steps in the reloading process. Most intelligent handloads avoid unnecessary steps...we would rather spend the time actually shooting.

Also, lubing 9MM makes not sense to me. The case is very short and tapered, meaning that there is not much travel into the die (friction), before it is sized. I cannot see how lubing would make much difference. The .30 Carbine however...
 
I find it astonishing that experienced and intelligent handloaders can't figure out the benefits of case lube even with handgun brass and carbide sizing dies.
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It doesn't baffle me, almost everyone I know that does not lube straight wall (handgun or rifle) cases simply has never tried it and felt the difference themselves.

Around 90% of those that try it once, keep doing it though.
 
It doesn't baffle me, almost everyone I know that does not lube straight wall (handgun or rifle) cases simply has never tried it and felt the difference themselves.

Around 90% of those that try it once, keep doing it though.
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Your statement begs the question: Where did you get that figure?
 
I'll add that I just started wet tumbling exactly one year ago and I did notice it get harder to size cases that have been wet tumbled . My plan is to try some car wash soap that has a wax additive to see if that lubes the cases a little . I should also add I only load 9mm & 45acp right now . Those are likely the easiest cases to size . I'll start loading 357 soon and may find it better to lube those .
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I would not walk across the street to watch an ant eat a bail of hay; I am not that excitable. When it comes to tumbling I use media and nothing; I understand it sounds cool when someone list all of the ingredients like: "I use salt and lemon with a little car wash etc. etc..". I am the only reloader that has two categories of cases, one group gets tumbled and for the worst of cases I use vinegar, once for the life of the case. After vinegar and nothing added I use boiling water twice, after rinsing in boiling water I tumble; I tumble cases in media and nothing.

Many years ago I decide to use vinegar because the stuff I was using was unforgiving, if I answered the door my cases disappeared, of I answered the phone? Same thing, the cases disappeared. I know, everyone is soo confused but there is something about an acid that can be a little ruff on the case. Meaning if I left my cases in vinegar long enough they would disappear slowly; first they would take on an orange/pink color. Not only did the case change color the solution/vinegar changed color. And then there was the mud, lots of mud in the bottom of my 3 gallon jug.

It has nothing to do about me avoiding looking cool I use vinegar and nothing on the worst of cases and I use media and nothing.

F. Guffey
 
Your statement begs the question: Where did you get that figure?
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My own survey.

Other than that 83.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Sounds like a good poll.

I have never lubed cases

I have never lubed pistol cases

I lube all cases
 
And then there is: "If I lube I tumble in media and nothing because I do not want anything between the case and chamber but air. I do not want a lot of air but the air that gets between the case and chamber needs to be clean air. And that is not easy to accomplish because when everything acts behaves like a magnet to dirt.

F. Guffey
 
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