Reloading 45 colt

Only handgun powder I have is hp38 and Titegroup.
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It has been a very long time since I shot any W231/HP38 in my 45 Long Colt's. Winchester W231 is the exact same stuff as HP 38, just packed in a different can and priced to meet the psychological level of happiness of the purchaser.

Unique is the best all around powder, in my experience, for standard 45 LC loads. Out of a five inch revolver standard loads are around 850 feet per second with a 250 to 255 grain bullet. I don't think 900 feet per second is over pressure, but 1000 fps load are on the hot side for N Frame S&W's and Colt SSA replicas.

I chronographed these loads a long time ago, based on my experience with W231 I would bump them up a half grain if I was using 250 Jacketed.

5" M25-7

255 LSWC (.452") 7.1 grs W231 Fed 150 primers
27-Jan-91 T ≈ 40 - 45 ° F

Ave Vel = 741
Std Dev = 16
ES = 43
Low = 714
High = 757
N = 6


255 LSWC 7.1 grs W231 Fed 150 primers
1-Feb-90 T ≈ 55 ° F

Ave Vel = 804
Std Dev = 21
ES = 57
Low = 774
High = 831
N = 7


I did shoot and test 2400 in the 45 LC. I am of the opinion that it is not an appropriate powder for standard pressure loads in this cartridge, especially in a light weight New Vaquero. However, this is a data point.

255 LSWC 17.0 grs 2400 little dandy rotor R21 Fed 150 primers
1-Feb-90 T ≈ 55 ° F

Ave Vel = 959
Std Dev = 55
ES = 175
Low = 864
High = 1039
N = 6


 
You must use Cast in the Colt. I've used Missouri 255s, Hunter Supply 275s, and Matt's 285s under 9-10 gr of Unique in my full size Blackhawk. They shoot fantastic. My son shot a 150# hog with the 275s in the eye socket and it made another butthole going out.
 
TO be clear, the OP has a NEW VAQUERO.

While those of us who have them love them, Ruger ONLY loads from full size (44 mag frame size "new model") Blackhawk .45s do not apply here.
(deleted most of the post, because, looking back, it was things I had already said...:D)

I have seen a different way of describing .45 Colt power levels than "standard" and "Ruger Only", and it is less confusing, but its not yet in as widespread use.

Tier I ammo:
Loads at the "standard" original black powder pressure and velocity levels.

Tier II
Hotter loads, up to handloading book max for the COLT SAA (approx. 1000fps/250gr bullet)

Tier III
loads above Tier II, including "Ruger Only", and not safe in guns with the same strength as the Colt SAA.
 
Good that you pointed that out 44AMP. It does make more sense than just 'standard' or Ruger Only 45 Colt loads.

I believe John Linebaugh pioneered the second Tier, or was at least one of the first to document it while working out woods loads for the S&W 25-5. Brian Pearce carried it a bit further and worked out a series of loads in the 20,000 CUP range using the RCBS 270SAA, known to drop from the mold about 285 grains.

I can think of a few applications where a 285 grain bullet might beat a 255; but real world differences are small. I've shot through deer longways with a 255 at 1100 (from a Blackhawk) and watched the bullet churn leaves 50-60 yards beyond.

But there's no need to strain the revolver. That load didn't accomplish anything that a good wide meplat 255 at 950 would not have done. The 45 Colt, loaded to original blackpowder ballistics, is a powerful handgun.
 
TO be clear, the OP has a NEW VAQUERO.

While those of us who have them love them, Ruger ONLY loads from full size (44 mag frame size "new model") Blackhawk .45s do not apply here.
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The last I chronographed factory ammunition in the 45 LC was 1999, it has all been handloads since then. And the definition of standard has not been agreed on yet, but I consider "standard" loads to be smoke less loads that meet 44 AMP's Tier 1. And even that, I would not fire any smokeless load in a black powder era Colt, because I don't trust the metallurgy, and originals are too expensive to own, never mind blow up. I don't have one, passed over one in the 1980's, very reasonably priced, because it was a blackpowder frame. I had no idea that that the value of even restored blackpowder Colt SAA's would gain so much. To me, I wanted a shooter, and I did not want to load blackpowder.

I hope the Original Poster is comparing what people are recommending against a reloading manual. Some of the loads, and powder recommendations, while they are just perfect for a Ruger SuperRedhawk, or a Freedom Arms revolver, are a might stiff for a Ruger New Vaquero.
 
Just for the record the 8.5 grains of Universal load I mentioned is listed in the 3rd Edition of Metallic Cartridge Reloading, page 326. It was tested at 14,200 CUP with a 250 grain jacketed bullet. I substitute a 255 grain lead and ain't a-feared. Some well known 'sixgun writers' have also used that load with a lead SWC or RNL bullet, published the data and they ain't blowed up yet. Your Mileage May Vary.
 
Since the New Vaquero has a lower safe pressure limit, it is best suited to powders that burn most consistently at that pressure. Looking at Slamfire's post, one can't help but notice the wide extreme velocity spread between shots when 2400 is used compared to W-231 powder. 2400 will become more consistent from shot to shot if the pressure is increased to a level that, quite frankly, is just not safe for the New Vaquero. Thus, a safe load using 2400 will likely not shoot nearly as accurately as a load using powders that burn substantially faster. For the New Vaquero, it's really hard to beat Unique.
 
I did find a pound of Unique today and will have to research some loading material on it. Per poster I am reading manuals with lower ends for hand gun not Ruger only. Coming from Hornady, Sierra, and Lyman manuals. I have no desire to load and blow up.
I did find the Unique at the store which had my Henry 357 come in today. Picture attached. Only scope I could find today. Was going to use Redfield but it's on my muzzleloader and we have 2 weeks left. All in all I think I really like the rifle. Chambers everything I've put in it so far. Now to get it zeroed in and chronograph both 45 and the rifle this weekend.
 

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I have shot lots of Unique in my various 45 LC’s. Loaded down to 8.0 grains with a 250-255 L, it is softer shooting than the 8.5 grains load and is just as accurate in my opinion. I have a bunch of data with Unique and it is interesting to see how the velocities vary between charges, there is one data group where the average of an 8.0 grain load is higher than an 8.5 grain data group, but that is the sort of anomalies you get with small sample sizes.

I tested both 0.452” lead and 0.454” bullets, and as long as the chamber mouths were 0.452”, I did not find a velocity or accuracy difference. Some 45 LC’s have 0.454” or greater chamber mouths and they won’t shoot well with 0.452” cast lead bullets. My 1973 Ruger Blackhawk has 0.454” chamber mouths, but it is my recollection my Ruger Vaquero miked out at 0.452”.


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[SIZE="4"]
[b]M625-9 Mountain Gun 4" Barrel [/b]



250 JHP 8.5 grs Unique thrown, W-W cases, WLP primers 
18-Mar-07 T = 55 °F V, accurate 
Ave Vel = 830 
Std Dev = 30 
ES= 103.5 
High= 893.4 
Low= 789.8 
Number Shots= 12 



255 LSWC (.452") 8.0 grs Unique thrown, lot 6/21/1993Starline cases, WLP primers 
25-Mar-07 T = 80 °F accurate 
Ave Vel = 800 
Std Dev = 30 
ES 99.02 
High 847.2 
Low 748.1 
Number Shots 11 


250 LRN (.452")  8.0 grs Unique lot 6/21/1993 thrown, R-P cases, WLP primers
25-Mar 07 T = 80°F accurate 
Ave Vel = 814 
Std Dev = 24 
ES 72.81 
High 847 
Low 774.2 
Number Shots 11 


250 LRN (.454") 8.5 grs Unique thrown lot 5471, 4/3/06, R-P cases, WLP primers

25-Mar-07 T = 80 °F accurate 
Ave Vel = 891 
Std Dev = 17 
ES 61.31 
High 921.1 
Low 859.8 
Number Shots 27 

255 LSWC (.452") 8.0 grs Unique lot 6/21/1993 mixed cases WLP (nickel) 

23-Sep-07 T = 82 °F 

Ave Vel = 802.5 
Std Dev = 31.03 
ES = 123.5 
High = 867.2 
Low = 743.6 
N = 12 


[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Pistols/M62545LCReduced.jpg[/IMG][/SIZE]

Code: 
[SIZE="4"]
[b]5 1/2" USFA Rodeo[/b]			
					
255 LSWC (.452") 8.0 grs Unique  thrown, lot 6/21/1993, Starline cases, WLP primers				
25-Mar-07	T = 80 °F
		
Ave Vel =864	 	 	 
Std Dev =28	 	 	
ES  =	75	 	 	
High  =898.8		 	
Low  =	800.1		 	
Number Shots	24	

255 LSWC (.454") 8.5 grs Unique  thrown, R-P cases, WLP primers				
12-May-02	T = 84°F			
				
Ave Vel =844	 	 	 
Std Dev =33	 	 	
ES  =	117.8	 	 	
High  =907.6		 	
Low  =	   789.8		 	
Number Shots	12			

240 JHP Sierra (.4515") 8.5 grs Unique  thrown, R-P cases, CCI300 primers				
12-May-02	T = 84°F			
				
Ave Vel =848	 	 	 
Std Dev =54	 	 	
ES  =	146.4	 	 	
High  =911.8		 		
Low  =	765.3		 		
Number Shots: 6	


[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SlamFire/media/Pistols%20various/DSCN0472.jpg.html][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Pistols%20various/DSCN0472.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
			[/SIZE]
 
This thread has been AWESOME reading. Thanks to all who have contributed. It's really good to hear all the positives about Unique, I have used it to load 9mm and liked it alot. So it seems maybe Unique is an all around great performer in most hand gun rounds. Which is wonderful, now I can just buy one powder. You guys have definitely cut out alot of leg work. I plan to load cast 45 Colt Smokeless and Black. Thanks again.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
Wendy, you have me wanting a 45 Colt Lever Action. I own Marlin Lever actions in .357 Mag, .44 Mag and .45-70. They are a joy to shoot,.... okay the .45-70 not so much a joy but a 'hoot'!

Anyway, I own a Redhawk .45Colt, and it has become a constant companion at the range. My favorite powder for it is Unique and HP38. I seem to get more accuracy with the Unique at just below 8.5gr. I know that gun can handle really stout loads, but to be honest I have more fun shooting my T/C Contender in .45 Colt with a longer barrel, with hotter loads. I can only imagine the Lever Actions getting full power out of the ole' .45 Colt cartridge!

Keep is updated.
 
I know the feeling. I just got my Henry in chambered in 357 and now wish I had bought the 45 colt instead. Go figure. I bought it for a 75-100 yard rifle and I know the 45 would have served my purpose probably better.
 
For some fun shooting, get a .45 Colt rifle and load em up with Win 296 loads. Back when I had my Win Model 94 AE it was lots of fun.

"Back in the day", Hornady's 3rd Edition Manual actually published Win 296 loads advertised as suitable for modern Colt style revolvers. In the next edition they thought better of it or the lawyers caught it and they took it out. I would never recommend that combination for anyone, nor is it necessary (but I did try it and it worked ok).
 
Wendy,

I believe that you will really like Unique powder in the 45 Colt. It meters well and has always provided great accuracy for me in any caliber revolver that I have ever tried it in. It is also just as accurate in my long barrel Winchester 94AE.

I recommend the use of hard cast bullets over jacketed bullets for any 45 Colt load. They are less expensive, penetrate well, actually expand well, will not lead the barrel unless driven way too hard, feed well in the lever guns and are easier on the barrel than the jacketed bullets.

I also like the Lee dies that you bought. I always seat and crimp in separate operations and the Lee factory crimp die is ideal for doing that.;)
 
Don't listen to these guys, they are all undercover operatives for Alliant ;) I switched to Universal 20+ years ago and I've never wanted another can of Unique.
 
I refute the accusation of being an agent for Alliant!

(I might have, at one time, been one for Hercules...but you'll have to prove it!)
:D

I started using Unique before Universal even existed, and never switched.

Unique is truly that. It is one of the oldest powders around, and does tolerably well in a really huge range of applications, and extremely well in a certain specific applications.
 
LMAO, 44AMP! I nearly wrote 'agents for Hercules' but I was afraid the kids here would think I lost it. Not that I haven't...

Somebody gave me a part can of Universal, not long after it was introduced. I recall thinking "Is this stuff gunpowder or Sand Mix?" But it metered better than the flake powders I'd been using and you could tell it was good, high energy stuff.

Unique was a mainstay powder for me a long time and I have nothing bad to say about it. I seem to recall that its metering qualities were improved in recent times. Does your experience bear this out?
 
005-2-3-2014-red.jpg


I've worked up a lot of different loads for the 45 Colt using different weight and types of bullets, along with that different powders.
The load I've settled on is 12grs of HS-6 topped off with a 270gr WFN cast bullet.

I shoot that load in 4 different revolvers chambered for 45 Colt including the new model Ruger in the picture above.
The load is accurate in all my revolvers and packs the wallop I was looking for from the 45 Colt cartridge.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
 
I do well with HP-38/ Win 231 and the 45 colt with lead bullets.

I use 7.0 gr under a 200 gr SWC, and 6.7 gr under a 240 gr swc for nice mid range loads. They burn clean and are accurate.
 
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