Reload wanna be seeking answers

I would caution anyone against using the internet as a teacher for reloading. Anyone can post nearly anything on the 'net and especially youtube, and be an "expert". I have been reloading for quite a while, started way pre-web, and have seen some very questionable practices posted on youtube and or blogs/web sites. IMO the only reliable source of info online is powder manufacturer's sites. I have even seen a dangerous load given on a forum which was a full grain over max. and it stayed on the forum for at least a full day. Wondering if some new reloader tried the "expert's" advice? :eek:

Published reloading manuals are safe, if the reloader reads and uses the suggestions. I have reloaded safely for 'round 30 years this way...;)

I've suggested my "theory" to new reloaders before and here it is again; I pay very little attention (none) to any forum expert, range rat, gun counter clerk, pet loads website, or gun shop guru when it comes to load data. 98% of my load data comes right outta one of my published reloading manuals. I just smile and say "Thanks fer yer help", then ferget what they said...
 
Best bet is along with getting the manuals and book is to find a local mentor. A mentor can be extremely valuable. I actually found one on this site years ago. Now he more than just a mentor, he's a friend.

Now instead of me asking so many questions, we just chit chat and throw ideas back and forth. I still keep my ears wide open though, in order to keep learning from someone who has more experience than I do.
 
Just a quick thought for all these apparent old-timers here. Reading a dense bunch of text by yourself with no guidance is not the best way to learn for most people. I'm not saying a new reloader shouldn't have these materials at hand and attempt to get as much information as possible from them, but good lord, it's not the only way to go. If reading alone was the best way to learn, then why would we have schools.

For what it's worth (and I've only been reloading rifle and pistol for about three years) get the books, read as much as you can AND go watch a lot of YouTube from reputable channels. Iraqveteran and Hickok45 both have reloading videos that are awesome, including nice introduction videos that describe how to get started.

Of course, people are skeptical to recommend YouTube because there are plenty of wackjobs on there making horrible, inaccurate videos. But seriously, if you can't spot these bad videos, you probably can't afford to reload anyway because you're spending all your money on products you see in late-night infomercials.

Concerning a progressive: I shoot between two and four times a month (but I don't compete). I use a single stage. If I really try, I can load all the brass I own (probably 1000 rounds) in a full day of work, and that lasts me for more than a month of shooting. For my pistol rounds, I do big batches like that. But for rifle, what I like to do is get all my brass cleaned, sized and primed and then store. I finish loading my rifle rounds in batches of 10 or 20. That allows me to experiment with different loadings and powders and such.

Unless you want serious volume, a progressive is probably more trouble than it's worth. They take a lot to set up and keep running smoothly AND there's more chance for errors to slip through.
 
Reloading to me is as much a hobby as shooting . I love setting down and making my own . In Indiana winter is long and cold if not for reloading ????

Most get into it for the cost savings and than stay for the enjoyment . I started reloading in about 1968 and today I make some of the best looking ammo you will ever shoot .
 
"Apparent Old Timer" here, but if youtube was 100% reliable (or even 98%) I would agree with you. But for reloading it's not just about learning, it also includes safety. I have never read anything unsafe in any manual or text I own regarding reloading. I have seen questionable practices on youtube. If a feller can't learn by reading, then a teacher/mentor is a good method (for the life of me I could not learn to play guitar from a book, but my teacher got me going in short order). I'm a lifelong machinist/mechanic so learning reloading from text was a piece of cake, but I understand some aren't wired that way. Reliable information can be had on discs from reloading equipment manufacturers (RCBS) and even MidWay USA has some gunsmithing/reloading videos available on line.

I again say to any new reloader; stay with reliable/trustworthy information, and leave youtube's self appointed experts videos for entertainment only (I'm sure not all videos on youtube are junk, but how is a new reloader to filter the real stuff from the questionable/dangerous junk? I'm betting someone has a "Do it Yourself Appendectomy" video too)...

linehttps://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=MIdwayUsa+videos&ei=utf-8&hspart=att&hsimp=yhs-att_001&type=sbc_dial
 
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IMHO I would start with a single stage press. If you dont want to invest in a nice one just get the cheap little lee on amazon for $30. Reload a few hundred rounds with that until you have setting dies set to memory. Once you are comfortable with single stage step up to the progressive with good confidence.
Imagine realizing you screwed up......at 800 rounds in...!!
 
A turret press is a good compromise and can be used just like a single stage. Reloading handgun ammo is not very hard to figure out. Just stick with published loads and don't try internet recipies. Using the proper powder is important.
 
Started with a single years ago, still use a single today. have no reason to change, and I shoot a lot. The only thing I use the press for is, sizing and seating the bullet. All else is done at the table upstairs. That being said, as others have mentioned- There are many good presses out there. pick one that tickles your fancy and have at it. Lot's will make it sound like rocket science, but basically all your doing is sizing a case, seating a primer, powder case and seat bullet. pretty simple. The rest you learn as you go. Not to much can go wrong.
Watch your powder, type and charge level, those are about the 2 most important things. You need to watch trim length,seating depth, case condition and such, but all in all it is a simple process.
 
Also for your pistols, range brass is just fine. So long as you are not loading absolute max loads. Just be sure to look at the cases. No cracked throats.
 
Welcome to the forum and to reloading. Thanks for asking our advice.

Aside from eye protection and manuals, you only need three things (physically) to load good ammo. (Of course, you would be severely limited in some ways, but capable of producing one round at a time, but safely.)

Press because fingers are not strong enough to form metal
Dies because fingers are not accurate enough to form metal to SAAMI specs
Scale (or calibrated dippers) because eyeballs are not accurate enough to measure out gunpowder.

A set of calipers would be a good idea, too, just to verify dimensions.

Everything else can be done without, substituted for or improvised until you can afford to buy good, quality gear.

But it is more efficient and cost effective to get equipment that fits your needs now and for the near/foreseeable future.

We could target our advice better if you shared some information about yourself: (What I use has no relevance to you if our needs are not similar.)

What gear to choose depends on what its purposes will be. What are yours? So, I have some questions for you before I can be more specific.

What calibers/chamberings will you be reloading? Answer: 9mm, .357/.38 and 45 ACP

What quantities will you be reloading for those calibers? (Per month)

How much time will you be willing to devote to those quantities?

How large of production runs before swapping calibers?

What is your budget for the initial purchase? (Not components, just the equipment)

Will you want to get your entire setup at once or, after an initial setup that does all you need, add accessories and conveniences as your experience suggests and finances permit?

Will you be putting your gear away after each session or leave it set up permanently?

How much space will you devote permanently to a loading area, if any?

Do you want it to be portable?

What are your shooting goals? Cheap ammo? Ultimate long-range accuracy? Casual plinking, Serious competition - what kind? Cowboy Action Shooting? Strictly hunting? Personal defense? Skills development?

Lost Sheep

p.s. I started on a single stage, moved up to a progressive and found it not suited to my style and moved "up" again to an autoindexing turret. I can load ammo as fast on the turret as I used to do on my progressives, caliber swaps are MUCH easier and my loading sessions are much more relaxing. Read more here about how I made that choice:
www.rugerforum.net/reloading/29385-...you-will-never-outgrow-novice-handloader.html
Of course, my style and temperament may not be the same as yours, but your inventory of calibers is similar to mine. .357, 9mm, 45ACP, 44 Mag, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 480 Ruger.
 
10 Advices for the novice loader

Sorry to be late to the party.

10 Advices for the novice loader

I have thought of a few things I think are useful for handloaders to know or to consider which seem to be almost universally mentioned, so I put together this list of 10 advices.


Much is a matter of personal taste and circumstance, though. So, all advice carries this caveat, "your mileage may vary".


So you can better evaluate my words, here is the focus of my experience. I load for handguns (44 Mag, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 9mm, 357 Mag, 480 Ruger) a couple hundred per sitting and go through 100 to 500 centerfire rounds per month. I don't cast....yet.


When I bought my first gun (.357 Magnum Dan Wesson revolver), I bought, at the same time, a reloading setup because I knew I could not afford to shoot if I did not reload my own ammo. My setup was simple. A set of dies, a press, a 2" x 6" plank, some carriage bolts and wing nuts, a scale, two loading blocks. I just mounted the press on the plank wedged into the drawer of an end table. I did not use a loading bench at all.


It cost me about 1/4 of factory ammo per round and paid for itself pretty quickly.


I still believe in a minimalist approach and and try to keep my inventory of tools low. I do not keep my loading gear set up when not in use, either, but pack them away in small toolboxes until the next loading session.


Now, here are my Ten Advices.


Advice #1 Use Reliable Reference Sources Wisely - Books, Videos, Web Sites, etc.


Study up in loading manuals until you understand the process well, before spending a lot of (or any) money on equipment.


Read as many manuals as you can, for the discussion of the how-to steps found in their early chapters. The reason you want more than one or two manuals is that you want to read differing authors/editors writing styles and find ones that "speak" to you. What one manual covers thinly, another will cover well so give better coverage of the subject; one author or editor may cover parts of the subject more thoroughly than the others. The public library should have manuals you can read, then decide which ones you want to buy. Dated, perhaps but the basics are pretty unchanging.


I found "The ABC's of Reloading" to be a very good reference. Containing no loading data but full of knowledge and understanding of the process. I am told the older editions are better than the newer ones, so the library is looking even better.


There are instructional videos now that did not exist in the '70s when I started, but some are better than others. Filter all casual information through a "B.S." filter.


Only after you know the processing steps of loading can you look at the contents of of a dealer's shelves, a mail-order catalog or a reloading kit and know what equipment you want to buy. If you are considering a loading kit, you will be in a better position to know what parts you don't need and what parts the kits lack. If building your own kit from scratch, you will be better able to find the parts that will serve your into the future without having to do trade-ins.


Advice #2 All equipment is good. But is it good FOR YOU?


Almost every manufacturer of loading equipment makes good stuff; if they didn't, they would lose reputation fast and disappear from the marketplace. Generally you get what you pay for and better equipment costs more. Cast aluminum is lighter and less expensive but not so abrasion resistant as cast iron. Cast iron lasts practically forever. Aluminum generally takes more cleaning and lubrication to last forever. Just think about what you buy. Ask around. Testimonials are nice. But if you think Ford/Chevy owners have brand loyalty, you have not met handloaders. Testimonials with reasoning behind them are better. RCBS equipment is almost all green, Dillon-blue, Lee-red. Almost no manufacturers cross color lines and many handloaders simply identify themselves as "Blue" or whatever. Make your own choices.


About brand loyalties, an example: Lee Precision makes good equipment, but is generally considered the "economy" equipment maker (though some of their stuff is considered preferable to more expensive makes, as Lee has been an innovator both in price leadership which has introduced many to loading who might not otherwise have been able to start the hobby and in introduction of innovative features like their auto-advancing turret presses). But there are detractors who focus on Lee's cheapest offerings to paint even their extremely strong gear as inferior. My advice: Ignore the snobs.


On Kits: Almost every manufacturer makes a kit that contains everything you need to do reloading (except dies and the consumables). A kit is decent way to get started. Eventually most people wind up replacing most of the components of the kit as their personal taste develops (negating the savings you thought the kit gave you), but you will have gotten started, at least.


On building your own kit: The thought processes you give to assembling your own kit increases your knowledge about reloading. You may get started a couple weeks later than if you started with a kit, but you will be far ahead in knowledge.

RCBS and Dillon seem, by most reports, the best warranty service. But that is reflected in the original purchase prices. Lee has a one year warranty at half the purchase price. You pays your money and you makes your choice. If you buy the higher-end Lee stuff, use the heck out of it the first year (to week out any true manufacturing defects), and give the gear good maintennce, it will last as long as as well as RCBS.


Advice #3 While Learning, you may think about options. Progressive, turret or Single Stage? Experimental loads? Pushing performance envelopes? Don't get fancy.




While you are learning, stay below maximum power levels (and do not go below book minimums, either). Propellants are designed to run best within a fairly narrow performance envelope. Start in the lower portion of and stay in the mid-range of that envelope. While you are at it, check several different sources for recipes. Different ballistics labs use different guns, primers and conditions and get different results. Look at the range of values in the recipes and stay in the mid-range. Just concentrate on getting the mechanical steps of loading right and being VERY VERY consistent (charge weight, crimp strength, bullet seating depth, primer seating force, all that). Use a voluminous, "fluffy", powder that is, one that is easy to see that you have charged the case and which will overflow your cartridge case if you mistakenly put two powder charges in it.


While learning, only perform one operation at a time. Whether you do the one operation 50 (or 20) times on a batch of cases before moving on to the next operation - "Batch Processing" or take one case through all the sequence of operations between empty case to finished cartridge - "Continuous Processing", sometimes known as "Sequential Processing", learn by performing only one operation at a time and concentrating on THAT OPERATION. On a single stage press or a turret press, this is the native way of operation. On a progressive press, the native operation is to perform multiple operations simultaneously. Don't do it. While you can learn on a progressive press, in my opinion too many things happen at the same time, thus are hard to keep track of (unless you load singly at first). Mistakes DO happen and you want to watch for them ONE AT A TIME. Until handloading becomes second nature to you.


Note: A turret press is essentially a single stage press with a moveable head which can mount several dies at the same time. What makes it like a single stage rather than a progressive is that you are still using only one die at a time, not three or four dies simultaneously at each stroke.


On the Turret vs Single stage the decision is simpler. You can do everything on a Turret EXACTLY the same way as you do on a single stage (just leave the turret stationary). That is, a Turret IS a single stage if you don't rotate the head.


Learning on a progressive can be done successfully, but it is easier to learn to walk in shoes than on roller skates.


Also, a good, strong, single stage press is in the stable of almost every reloader I know, no matter how many progressives they have. Most keep at least one.


Advice #4 Find a mentor.


There is no substitute for someone watching you load a few cartridges and critiquing your technique BEFORE you develop bad habits or make a dangerous mistake. (A mistake that might not have consequences right away, but maybe only after you have escaped trouble a hundred times until one day you get bit, for instance having case lube on your fingers when you handle primers; 99 times, no problem because primers are coated with a sealant, but the hundredth primer may not be perfectly sealed and now winds up "dead")


I started loading with the guy who sold me my press watching over my shoulder as I loaded my first 6 rounds to make sure I did not blow myself up, load a powderless cartridge or set off a primer in the press. I could have learned more, faster with a longer mentoring period, but I learned a lot in those first 6 rounds, as he explained each step. I educated myself after that. But now, on the internet, I have learned a WHOLE LOT MORE. But in-person is still the best.


After you have been mentored, mentor someone else. Not necessarily in loading or the shooting sports, but in SOMETHING in which you are enthusiastic and qualified. Just give back to the community.


Advice #5 Design your loading space for safety, efficiency, easse, cleanliness


Your loading bench/room is tantamount to a factory floor. There is a whole profession devoted to industrial engineering, the art and science of production design. Your loading system (layout, process steps, quality control, safety measures, etc) deserves no less attention than that.

For example, consider the word "workflow". Place your components' supplies convenient to the hand that will place them into the operation and the receptacle(s) for interim or finished products, too. You can make a significant increase in safety and in speed, too, with well thought out design of your production layout, "A" to "Z", from the lighting to the dropcloth to the fire suppression scheme.

One factor often neglected is where the scale is located. Place your scale where it is protected from drafts and vibration and is easy to read and operate, eye level, in good light, etc.


Advice #6 Keep Current on loading technology


Always use a CURRENT loading manual. Ballistic testing has produced some new knowledge over the years and powder chemistry has changed over the years, too. They make some powders differently than they used to and even some powder names may have changed. However, if you are using 10 year old powder, you may want to check a 10 year old manual for the recipe. Then double check with a modern manual and then triple check with the powder maker.


Read previous threads on reloading and watch videos available on the web. But be cautious. There is both good information and bad information found in casual sources, so see my advice #10.


Advice #7 You never regret buying the best (but once)


When you buy the very best, it hurts only once, in the wallet. When you buy too cheaply it hurts every time you use the gear. The trick is to buy good enough (on the scale between high quality and low price) to keep you happy without overpaying for features you don't need. "The delicious flavor of low price fades fast. The wretched aftertaste of poor quality lingers long."


Advice #8 Tungsten Carbide dies (or Titanium Nitride) rather than tool steel.

T-C dies instead of regular tool steel (which require lubrication for sizing your brass) for your straight-walled cartridge cases. T-C dies do not require lubrication, which will save you time. Carbide expander button for your bottlenecked cases. Keeps lube out of the inside of the cases.


Advice #9 Safety Always Safety All Ways.


Wear eye protection, especially when seating primers. Gloves are good, too, especially if using the Lee "Hammer" Tools. Children (unless they are good helpers, not just playing around) are at risk and are a risk. Pets, too unless they have been vetted (no, not that kind of vetting). Any distractions that might induce you to forget charging a case (no charge or a double charge, equally disturbing). Imagine everything that CAN go wrong. Then imagine everything that you CAN'T imagine. I could go on, but it's your eyes, your fingers, your house, your children (present or future - lead is a hazard, too. Wash after loading and don't eat at your bench). Enough said?


Advice #10 Take all with a grain of salt.

Verify for yourself everything you learn. Believe only half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for everything you find on the internet (with the possible exception of the actual web sites of the bullet and powder manufacturers). This advice applies to my message as much as anything else and especially to personal load recipes. Hare-brained reloaders might have dangerous habits and even an honest typographical error could be deadly. I heard about a powder manufacturer's web site that dropped a decimal point once. It was fixed REAL FAST, but mistakes happen. I work in accounting and can easily hit "7" instead of "4" or a "3" instead of a decimal point because they are next to each other on the keypad.


Good luck.


Lost Sheep
 
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