Relative physical strength of men vs. women?
- Thread starter Jeff Thomas
- Start date
- Status
Steve Smith
New member
Tamara, I'm guessing that you're close to 6' and you work out for strength. Size up some women in the local mall. I'd bet that more than 90% of women look pretty frail to you. You don't fit within the rule, and that's way in your favor. Based upon the "I starve myself to look thin" population in women that's awfully prevalent around here, along with the roly-poly types (and they exist in both sexes), MOST women are at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to fighting a man. BTW, folks, I didn't mean to infer that I don't carry because I'm "big". Coinneach KNOWS that I'm not big. I'm shorter than him! And I DO carry, always, because I know that I'm not the baddest hombre west of the Pecos. Even still, I still say that most women are not a match for most men.
On average, men are 10% heavier than women of the same height, but men are also taller on
average. The average height for a man is 5'10" and for a woman is 5'4," or about 9%
taller. Combine the two, and it works out that men are 31% larger than women (obviously it's not additive).
This is only talking about size differences, but it's reasonable to assume that with that size comes strength, and that men are at least 31% stronger than women.
Have you ever tried to wrestle or restrain a woman. It's no contest. I've never met a woman who was near my strength.
average. The average height for a man is 5'10" and for a woman is 5'4," or about 9%
taller. Combine the two, and it works out that men are 31% larger than women (obviously it's not additive).
This is only talking about size differences, but it's reasonable to assume that with that size comes strength, and that men are at least 31% stronger than women.
Have you ever tried to wrestle or restrain a woman. It's no contest. I've never met a woman who was near my strength.
Somebody made a good point about comparing people pound-for-pound--if you're talking about self-defense, it's irrelevant. I used it because it seemed the most direct comparison, but if we're talking about combat, then hell yes. My wife is strong for a woman (though we've both lost a lot of strength since we moved away from the college's free gym 
) but she'll never in her life be able to take me based on strength alone. Now, I weigh nearly 300 lbs, am 6'1" and been lifting since junior high, so that's not a "fair" comparison in any way--but the fact is that when you compare my wife to me and my circle of friends, it becomes obvious that hand-to-hand does not cut it for her. My best friend in college was 6'4" and 290, and he was solid. He and I used to squat over 600 for 5 reps (though I cannot tell a Lie, we cheated like hell to do that and never could do it again going close to parallel.)
I still remember the night it took 3 of us to hold him back at some party--when he was drunk enough to use all his strength and not hold back on his friends, he was a monster. No female I know of would have stood a chance against this guy. I include females like Tamara and Kathy Long in this humble opinion. Sorry ladies, but no way. If it makes you feel any better, there was no way I could have taken him either. He was just one of those people who don't look incredibly muscular but have the big bones, long muscle connections, and all the rest that make them STRONG.
But hey, that's what guns and knives are for.
) but she'll never in her life be able to take me based on strength alone. Now, I weigh nearly 300 lbs, am 6'1" and been lifting since junior high, so that's not a "fair" comparison in any way--but the fact is that when you compare my wife to me and my circle of friends, it becomes obvious that hand-to-hand does not cut it for her. My best friend in college was 6'4" and 290, and he was solid. He and I used to squat over 600 for 5 reps (though I cannot tell a Lie, we cheated like hell to do that and never could do it again going close to parallel.)I still remember the night it took 3 of us to hold him back at some party--when he was drunk enough to use all his strength and not hold back on his friends, he was a monster. No female I know of would have stood a chance against this guy. I include females like Tamara and Kathy Long in this humble opinion. Sorry ladies, but no way. If it makes you feel any better, there was no way I could have taken him either. He was just one of those people who don't look incredibly muscular but have the big bones, long muscle connections, and all the rest that make them STRONG.
But hey, that's what guns and knives are for.
Here's some studies you can look into; a local library or college library should have it. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9731343&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7253873&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7253873&dopt=Abstract
There are exceptions to any rule. My wife is one. She's only 5'3", but plenty strong. In high school, she was on the gymnastics team. She's not petite, and had to achieve through strength. One of the guys on the men's gymnastics team gave her grief, and they wound up arm wrestling. She beat him. Over the course of the next 2 months, she arm wrestled the entire men's gymnastics team, and beat them all.
My point is not that women are stronger than men, just that there ARE some strong women out there. I agree that the military shouldn't have two standards. Women who meet the physical standards should qualify. Others shouldn't.
Still wish my wife would carry, too.
My point is not that women are stronger than men, just that there ARE some strong women out there. I agree that the military shouldn't have two standards. Women who meet the physical standards should qualify. Others shouldn't.
Still wish my wife would carry, too.
I just wanted to add one more point.
I used to coach wrestling and had kids from 6th grade through 12th. Every once in a while a couple of middle school girls would come out. GENERALLY, the girls could compete pretty well until eighth grade. Then, the boys would hit puberty and start making a bunch more testosterone. Once this happened, the girls quickly dropped out. They just couldn't compete with the guys. It seems that they were not only not strong enough, but also lacked a "killer instinct" that the guys developed.
It could be that this "killer instinct" was cultural, although I would guess it was both cultural and physiological. These same girls would be *animals* in their chosen sports (volleyball, softball, basketball, etc.), but their level of agression just wasn't up to the level of the guys.
As for the strength difference, I can't think of ANY sport where the top professional women can compete with the top professional men.
Big Exception: I have meet a few women who did have the strength and agression of a guy, but it is VERY rare. I'd say in my 15 year career I've seen maybe 5 high school girls who had this level of ability...
I used to coach wrestling and had kids from 6th grade through 12th. Every once in a while a couple of middle school girls would come out. GENERALLY, the girls could compete pretty well until eighth grade. Then, the boys would hit puberty and start making a bunch more testosterone. Once this happened, the girls quickly dropped out. They just couldn't compete with the guys. It seems that they were not only not strong enough, but also lacked a "killer instinct" that the guys developed.
It could be that this "killer instinct" was cultural, although I would guess it was both cultural and physiological. These same girls would be *animals* in their chosen sports (volleyball, softball, basketball, etc.), but their level of agression just wasn't up to the level of the guys.
As for the strength difference, I can't think of ANY sport where the top professional women can compete with the top professional men.
Big Exception: I have meet a few women who did have the strength and agression of a guy, but it is VERY rare. I'd say in my 15 year career I've seen maybe 5 high school girls who had this level of ability...
Tamara: Much like black people who work hard and get good grades, and resent the fact that they are told they are supposed to be"dumber" and need a free ride with affirmative action, if you are indeed the exception and not the rule, and you are as strong as a man your size (there are a few women like this), then you should be upset more than anyone that there are specialized (lowered) standards for women. Those standards are telling you that women are so lazy and incompetent that they have to have a special standard to allow them into jobs that they are not qualified for. Only women that can pass the male tests should be let in. No one would argue with you taht if you can pass the male tests then you should be let into the job.
When I am passed out from smoke inhalation and dying in a burning home, the firefighter that I am paying for with my tax dollars better damn well be able to kick downt he door and carry my butt out, no matter what sex they are.
The difference lies in testosterone. Testosterone not only makes people stronger, and makes them gain strength faster during training, but surprisingly, according to recent research, it makes them faster and quicker (speed and reflexes). Some women have more testosterone than others, but few have more than any man. Look to non-strength-based sports and you will see men excelling over women. It is more than just strength, there is quickness, reflexes, and speed and more.
Women can augment with testosterone, and though it is illegal, it will boost the woman up to male standards for her size (and make her look like a man).
Some women have more testosterone than some men. This usually shows up in their distinct excellence in sports. Occasionally, you have a woman with so much testosterone that she is very similar to a man in performance. These are the kind of women that can pass the male tests to get into physical occupations (with all of our unanimous glowing approval since they pass the standard tests).
My experience: I have been weight training for years as well as wrestling, martial arts and boxing. I wrestle in a troop that allows women to train with us. The women quickly find out that they are no match for any man, even the men that are smaller than them. Take a 140 pound woman and a 120 pound man, both of low body fat and equal training, and the man wins %99 of the time. The woman is hardly competition, but more of a ragdoll. The same is true for boxing and martial arts. Women need an equalizer, like a knife
A cut is a cut, from a woman or a man, and the knife does bridge the gap (although it is no miracle wand).
In weight training, the same is evident. Women are weaker everywhere, including legs. If that were not true, then you would see world class women competing against men in the same weight class. Even in leg presses, women in the same weight class cannot compete with men. Lighter women cannot run faster or longer than men, even though the men are disadvantages with upper body weight.
Any other thinking on the issue is wishful thinking and politically correct diatribe. In general, men are, pound for pound, (equal weight, bodyfat, and skill), faster, stronger and quicker than women. That's just the way it is, even though no one wants to accept it.
Check out the new issue of GQ. There is a great article on testosterone and the recent research that has shown it's effects on men. In this age of "male bashing" and "women are equal or better than men at everything", it is very unpopular and un-PC these days to do any research on any topic that would show a man excelling over a woman, so there is very little sociological or scientific research.
If the woman thinks she would be safe from criminals if there were no guns....what can I say....she is smoking crack. Tell her to go to a martial arts school or a boxing ring or a wrestling match and see the women wrestle with the men. Sure, there are exceptions, but unless SHE is one of them, then she is screwed. And, even the exceptions only can compete with men their size. What do they do when the man is 100 pounds heavier....?
You would think that crime and murder and rape started with the invention of guns. These people are such idiots. Do they think women were safer before guns were invented? Seems to me that women are a lot safer with guns, because guns equalize the sexes. Would they rather face a big bad guy with a sword, and nothing but her own sword to defend herself? (Trust me, I fought in the SCA for years, and I saw women suit up and try to compete. Barring the exceptions, a sword is not going to help a woman either. Most of them coul dnot even swing a real sword with enough power to wound).
In reality, the gun is the womans best friends, the ultimare, and ONLY true equalizer.
In fact, often women, when they apply themselves, shoot better than men, so they have the advantage (see, I am not sexist, women generally shoot better than men in my experience )
Women being able to target shoot better is attributed to many things, one being their softer heart beat, another being their ability to pick up color differentiation better, (thereby seeing the sights and the target and the definition thereof better), and lastly because they get good training rather than trying to figure it out themselves.
[This message has been edited by Red Bull (edited August 08, 2000).]
When I am passed out from smoke inhalation and dying in a burning home, the firefighter that I am paying for with my tax dollars better damn well be able to kick downt he door and carry my butt out, no matter what sex they are.
The difference lies in testosterone. Testosterone not only makes people stronger, and makes them gain strength faster during training, but surprisingly, according to recent research, it makes them faster and quicker (speed and reflexes). Some women have more testosterone than others, but few have more than any man. Look to non-strength-based sports and you will see men excelling over women. It is more than just strength, there is quickness, reflexes, and speed and more.
Women can augment with testosterone, and though it is illegal, it will boost the woman up to male standards for her size (and make her look like a man).
Some women have more testosterone than some men. This usually shows up in their distinct excellence in sports. Occasionally, you have a woman with so much testosterone that she is very similar to a man in performance. These are the kind of women that can pass the male tests to get into physical occupations (with all of our unanimous glowing approval since they pass the standard tests).
My experience: I have been weight training for years as well as wrestling, martial arts and boxing. I wrestle in a troop that allows women to train with us. The women quickly find out that they are no match for any man, even the men that are smaller than them. Take a 140 pound woman and a 120 pound man, both of low body fat and equal training, and the man wins %99 of the time. The woman is hardly competition, but more of a ragdoll. The same is true for boxing and martial arts. Women need an equalizer, like a knife
A cut is a cut, from a woman or a man, and the knife does bridge the gap (although it is no miracle wand).In weight training, the same is evident. Women are weaker everywhere, including legs. If that were not true, then you would see world class women competing against men in the same weight class. Even in leg presses, women in the same weight class cannot compete with men. Lighter women cannot run faster or longer than men, even though the men are disadvantages with upper body weight.
Any other thinking on the issue is wishful thinking and politically correct diatribe. In general, men are, pound for pound, (equal weight, bodyfat, and skill), faster, stronger and quicker than women. That's just the way it is, even though no one wants to accept it.
Check out the new issue of GQ. There is a great article on testosterone and the recent research that has shown it's effects on men. In this age of "male bashing" and "women are equal or better than men at everything", it is very unpopular and un-PC these days to do any research on any topic that would show a man excelling over a woman, so there is very little sociological or scientific research.
If the woman thinks she would be safe from criminals if there were no guns....what can I say....she is smoking crack. Tell her to go to a martial arts school or a boxing ring or a wrestling match and see the women wrestle with the men. Sure, there are exceptions, but unless SHE is one of them, then she is screwed. And, even the exceptions only can compete with men their size. What do they do when the man is 100 pounds heavier....?
You would think that crime and murder and rape started with the invention of guns. These people are such idiots. Do they think women were safer before guns were invented? Seems to me that women are a lot safer with guns, because guns equalize the sexes. Would they rather face a big bad guy with a sword, and nothing but her own sword to defend herself? (Trust me, I fought in the SCA for years, and I saw women suit up and try to compete. Barring the exceptions, a sword is not going to help a woman either. Most of them coul dnot even swing a real sword with enough power to wound).
In reality, the gun is the womans best friends, the ultimare, and ONLY true equalizer.
In fact, often women, when they apply themselves, shoot better than men, so they have the advantage (see, I am not sexist, women generally shoot better than men in my experience
)Women being able to target shoot better is attributed to many things, one being their softer heart beat, another being their ability to pick up color differentiation better, (thereby seeing the sights and the target and the definition thereof better), and lastly because they get good training rather than trying to figure it out themselves.
[This message has been edited by Red Bull (edited August 08, 2000).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Matt VDW:
Amongst lions, for instance, the males are bigger than the females, but the females do most of the hunting. The males have evolved to be bigger and stronger because they compete with each other for the right to mate with multiple females; wimpy lions tend not to pass on their genes.
[/quote]
Its true that the female lions do most of the hunting, BUT, the males are the ones who protect the pride. Again, this is the exception I am talking about. Most of the time, its the males who hunt, and protect.
Amongst lions, for instance, the males are bigger than the females, but the females do most of the hunting. The males have evolved to be bigger and stronger because they compete with each other for the right to mate with multiple females; wimpy lions tend not to pass on their genes.
[/quote]
Its true that the female lions do most of the hunting, BUT, the males are the ones who protect the pride. Again, this is the exception I am talking about. Most of the time, its the males who hunt, and protect.
oberkommando
New member
BigPig, you are right, and when Hyennas attack they will mess with a female lion but not a male, the females generally run away from hyennas whereas the male will kill them.
BTW in hyenna packs the females are larger and stronger. Another reason that male lions do not hunt it that their large manes give them away, at least thats what discovery channel said. Where women will beat men I believe is in very long distance swimming. I think the women have the english channel record. They got more body fat that is better at insulating and creating bouyancy.
They are more like sharks
Don, at that party you needed Magnus Ver Magnusson, or Gerrit Badenhorst would have made things much easier. I once saw Paul? Taylor an Irish or Scott do a behind the neck press with 485lbs. These monsters make all of us normal guys look like girlymen.
[This message has been edited by oberkommando (edited August 09, 2000).]
BTW in hyenna packs the females are larger and stronger. Another reason that male lions do not hunt it that their large manes give them away, at least thats what discovery channel said. Where women will beat men I believe is in very long distance swimming. I think the women have the english channel record. They got more body fat that is better at insulating and creating bouyancy.
They are more like sharks
Don, at that party you needed Magnus Ver Magnusson, or Gerrit Badenhorst would have made things much easier. I once saw Paul? Taylor an Irish or Scott do a behind the neck press with 485lbs. These monsters make all of us normal guys look like girlymen.
[This message has been edited by oberkommando (edited August 09, 2000).]
Sorry Glamdring,
I did not know that when you and Gandalf were slaughtering Orcs, that you saw the human evolution tract; thus qualifying you to say "a load of crap," regarding any theory. Most of this stuff is theoretical based on piecing together evidence discovered. I assume we were spinning our wheels in angst, when we could have just gone to the Waldenbook "Sports" aisle.
I did not know that when you and Gandalf were slaughtering Orcs, that you saw the human evolution tract; thus qualifying you to say "a load of crap," regarding any theory. Most of this stuff is theoretical based on piecing together evidence discovered. I assume we were spinning our wheels in angst, when we could have just gone to the Waldenbook "Sports" aisle.
Oberkommando, was it Gary Taylor, maybe? I haven't been following WSM and the like very well for the past year, but you can find results and stuff at http://www.ironmind.com . Without cable TV, that's how I used to keep up.
Magnusson, Kazmaier, Paulsson, Taylor...those guys are as far out of my league as they are out of any woman's. I believe the mere SIGHT of Kaz getting irritated would have reached through the drunken haze and pulled my friend back to reality....
Magnusson, Kazmaier, Paulsson, Taylor...those guys are as far out of my league as they are out of any woman's. I believe the mere SIGHT of Kaz getting irritated would have reached through the drunken haze and pulled my friend back to reality....
Nestor Rivera
New member
Not to belabor a point but in addition to more muscle mass due to size but "men" as a geneirc term being larger also have longer levers i.e. longer arms / legs. This is an advantage in most sports.
On the down side of course is the extra forces this will put on the spine thus the reason for fewier very tall golf pros, the back of a 6'5 player just does not last as long as a 6'0 player. There will of course be many exeptions to this generalities
On the down side of course is the extra forces this will put on the spine thus the reason for fewier very tall golf pros, the back of a 6'5 player just does not last as long as a 6'0 player. There will of course be many exeptions to this generalities
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>(clean and jerk and snatch)[/quote]
Boy - That sounds obscene!
Boy - That sounds obscene!
cuerno de chivo
Moderator
maybe that's what lawdog put in his search engine? 
oberkommando
New member
Don, yeah I think your right it was a few years ago but I could hardly believe the shoulder strenght of that maniac. He was standing and after he pressed it he just kept it there and yelled at everyone, nobody decieded to try an best it. Not absolutley sure of exat weight but it was around twice what I used to do, I am far from strongest guy but lift more than most average guys at my gym so I was very impressed by this hawg.
I dont think taylor ever won the strongman but sure was good competitor, too short to lift the barrels over wall etc. etc..
KOG, you are right but sharks do sink, however I knew they had somthing in common, thanks for pointing it out.
I have put forth the effort to take at least three cheap shots at women and they still dont grab the bait, guess they are weaker than us guys.
I dont think taylor ever won the strongman but sure was good competitor, too short to lift the barrels over wall etc. etc..
KOG, you are right but sharks do sink, however I knew they had somthing in common, thanks for pointing it out.
I have put forth the effort to take at least three cheap shots at women and they still dont grab the bait, guess they are weaker than us guys.
- Status