Registering Guns in Family Housing on Base

O

Ozzie223

Retired Screen Name
Looks like military and dependents through the Air Force will soon face mandatory registraion of all firearms kept in their homes , regardless of ownership, if they live on base.

I'm not sure how I feel about this yet, but I intend to comply. I am a little suspicious though. After all these decades , 80 days before Y2K and they want a list of all privately owned weapons kept in homes on base. Here is the email sent by the SP Commander on the base I live at.

Fellow Commanders and First Sergeants,

Wanted to give you a heads up that the soon-to-be-published ACC Sup to AFI 31-209 will require all privately owned weapons on base to be registered. We became aware of this a few weeks ago when we reviewed the initial draft, but at that time it wasn't clear if that provision would make the final reg.

Now we've been told that the provision will be in the final reg.

Don't know the process and how it will work and my folks are working hard to determine what part of the process is going to be spelled-out in the reg and what part we'll have to develop locally. My SF staff and my orderly room will work to implement this with as little pain as possible. The end result of the registration process will be to allow my SF control center to know of the existence of weapons in base housing when necessary (i.e., responding to burgulary, domestic disturbance, etc.).

I think that the bulk of the work to get weapons registered in your units will fall on your orderly rooms. The reg could be on the streets as early as next week, but I'll fight to NOT have an unreasonable suspense associated with getting this done. Once we get the initial registration done, it should just be an inprocessing task.

In case you don't know, privately owned weapons are allowed to be storred in base housing, but not in troop housing. Storage locations aren't changing, only registration. My armory stores privately owned weapons for dormitory and billeting residents and provides courtesy storage for anyone else -- that also isn't changing.

Thanks, as always for your support.
Regards
(I blocked his name)
 
Ozzie:

Don't get paranoid on this one. I'm suprised this hasn't been done already. The Army has been doing this for a long time.

Fred
 
Ozzie:

Same as Fred...US Army has always required that POWs (Privately Owned Weapons) in post housing be registered with Provost Marshal's office. Single troops in barracks could store weapons in their unit arms room, if there was enough room.

Nothing here to get edgy about.

Mike

[This message has been edited by Mike Spight (edited October 08, 1999).]
 
While on my last tour overseas I was stationed in a remote area (British
Sector) of West Germany. I was the NCOIC of the Air Force Detachment
collocated with a small Army unit. There were no on-base facilities
except our work area - we lived on the economy. (Yeah! It WAS great!)

The Army Commander, a Captain, said one of the
young troops in his Army unit hand brandished a handgun (somewhere,
some place, some time), therefore he wanted to know who had guns and
where they were.

Although all our firearms already were registered with USAREUR (U. S.
Army, Europe), he demanded all personnel register their firearms with
him. I spoke with him about it and asked when he was going to
confiscate them.

He profusely denied any and all action other than merely, as
Commander, his need to know who had guns. I (somewhat) respectfully
indicated I did not believe him.

Shortly thereafter he confiscated all firearms; forcing us to bring our
firearms to his “armory” - a small damp (water on the floor), unheated cement
block building about ten feet square with a lockable door.

I surrendered my single-shot .22 bolt-action (hand cocking) rifle,
mentioning to him very disrespectfully his integrity was even lower than I had feared. We had a “lively” discussion ending with his refusal of further “man to man” discourse. ;)

Registration is a prelude to confiscation. Why does any “authority” need
to know who has guns - described right down to the serial number?

- Political correctness? “We must do SOMETHING”. The same PC will
require them to keep on doing “something” until we lose our guns and
other rights as well.
- We've always done this? So much for modernization, "be ALL that you can be", and all the other platitudes.
- Security? From whom? Security from the same people who will
provide security? It’s absolute nonsense.
- Family protection? Probably the only semi-rational argument. But
then they also should prevent military people from learning martial arts
or possessing knives, screwdrivers, etc.
- Military discipline? No matter how stupid, illegal or immoral the order
the soldier must obey? Wrong! (Think My Lai or Nuerenberg.)
- Military need? Military members give up some Constitutional Rights.
Sure, I understand that. But if we are not trustworthy enough to have
guns at home are these the guys we want fixing million dollar airplanes,
working with Top Secret material, etc.?

I’d choose to live off base rather than register my personal private
property. What’s next? Computers? Typewriters? After all, someone
might reveal classified information! Heck, let’s keep them all at work in
confinement for twenty years separate from their families so if they talk
in their sleep they won’t slip up? Where does it all end?

The whole thing gave me “gas” then - just as it does now. It’s an
ego-masturbating power play by “careerists” rather than professionals.

Somewhere, somehow, some time, some “authority” will need to show
some trust in some subordinates.


[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited October 08, 1999).]
 
This is a tough one. On one hand they have the right to do whatever they want. You volunteered for the job and you live in their house (yeah I know- taxpayers own it) on their property and agreed to live by their rules. Nothing different form a company owner in the civilian world saying they don't want weapons on their property. They have that right.

On the other hand, it's none of their damn business. They trust you with a weapon when it fits their needs? Give me a break.

Personally, I don't think I'd follow this one to the letter. It's always a good idea to have something in reserve.
 
The Navy has also been doing this for a long time as well. They allow you to keep one firearm in the home, (registered of course), and all others must be in the base armory. I have experienced no problems except for the fact that if I want to check one out, it has to be done during regular hours, M-F. Security on our bases is a major concern, we just recently had the McDonalds on base robbed @ gunpoint. After hours there is only one open gate on base, and the perps were able to get past the I guess sleeping at his post or something DOD civilian guard, rob the store, which is over a mile inside the base, then get back off base past this same guard who should have been securing the gate. This place absolutely kills me and that is why I can't wait for my hitch to be up so I can get the F**K out!

------------------
DOCSpanky
"Walk softly and carry a big stick, perferably one of the 12 guage variety!"
 
Dennis:

If your weapons were already registered with USAREUR, why didn't you send a complaint up through the chain? If that wouldn't have helped, then the IG coud have been notified.

Bottomline, they guy abused his power...you and your fellow soldiers could have done something about it (and would have probably won), but it sounds like you didn't. It's a lick on you.

As another poster correctly stated, we gave up lots of rights citizens often take for granted when we took the oath of enlistment or commissioning. Unfortunately, the military is filled with NCOs and officers who are afraid to trust their people and take reasonable risks.

BTW, I didn't register my weapons when I lived in govt qtrs...only time they were ever registered was when I placed them in a unit arms room on a temporary basis prior to moving into my home. They were, of course, registered with USAREUR when I was stationed in Germany.

Mike
 
Right now if you live on a USAF conus base you are"requested" to fill out the AF Form 1314 whitch "registers" your personally owned firearms. This form is filled out by you, then your commander signs and the Armory runs the sereal # of all weapons through NCIC. If everything checks out Pass & ID get a copy, your commander gets one and you get one. At least this is the way we did it in the Armory when I worked there.

NEVER EVER store your firearms in the Armory, kids play with them, they are handeled weekly doing a serieal # inventory and they then rust. I would wipe every firearm down with a oily rag after I touched them but other armorers did not. Plus some would play with the weapons when alone in the armory.

I have not herd of this new ACC supplement but am on a SpaceCom base. Will have to do some research and find out if this is somthing ACC is doing or what is going on. What base is implementing this?? Just PSC's last year from a ACC base to a SpaceCom base and have friends back on the old yard who own firearms.

I'd refuse to register my weapns on base and give them to a friend like many many dorm residents do. This way their is not a record of you owing any, (as far as the military knows) they are kept off base with trusted friends and nobody is the wiser.

This is just another reason why I REFUSE to live on base. We were offered base housing yesterday, guess what I told them ;)
 
Mike,

I gave the Reader’s Digest version - don’t jump to conclusions.
Remember, you’re dealing with a disrespectful, hotheaded, Second
Amendment advocate! (BIG grin!!)

I was Air Force and would have been required to go up my chain of
command, cross over at the 2-star level, and come back down the Army
chain of command.

Each level would have to investigate, comment, be
re-convinced, re-investigate, procrastinate, find out behind the scenes
whether or not to proceed, then actually proceed. Jeez! It would have
taken generations!!!!

Mike: “Bottomline, the guy abused his power...you and your fellow
soldiers could have done something about it (and would have probably
won), but it sounds like you didn't. It's a lick on you.”

I’ve inadvertently misled you (brevity and all that). Pressure was brought to bear - at the unit level. ;) We got our weapons back within about a month or so, but three facts remain:
1) The gentleman lied, exceeded the limits of leadership (if not his
actual powers), and got slapped for it. (Couldn’t have happened to a
nicer guy.)
2) The troops won in the long run.
3) Registration facilitates confiscation.
 
Dennis:

Good deal...you guys did win and a dips%*t got beat up by the system (I know it can be a painful drawnout process at times, but it worked for me too over the years).

I should have known that you wouldn't take it laying down...don't be so sparse on those critical details next time ;)

Mike
 
Little-e really summed up the way the situation looks to me. Fred and Mike mentioned the Army has been doing this for some time, and that sets me at ease, a bit.
Dennis' story give me the heebie-jeebies.

The problem is : considering ALL the AF officers I've known, more are like soccer moms than soldiers. Perhaps it's the technical aspect of AF jobs or the antiseptic view of always looking "off base."
I don't know. I suspect that seeing an AR-15 and a Mossberg 590 on whatever list they review is going to raise an eyebrow.

I kinda thought I was safe from gun grabbers here in South Dakota. The state has no registration for hand or long guns, and CCW's are like getting license plates. But, it is a federal reservation, so you have to obey the rules. I'm sure whatever penalty for noncompliance they think up will be harsh. Argh.
 
When I was a company commander in Europe in the late '80s. I encouraged private ownership of arms. Yes the guys in the barracks had to lock them up in the arms room, that was a USAEUR reg. But the First Sergeant would gather up troops on Saturdays and take them to the range to shoot and also to the skeet aand trap range. When we qualified in the local training areas, I would let the troops bring their POWs out and shoot them. (POW = Privatly Ownwed Weapons....)We were an infantry company after all. All rounds downrange weather from the issue rifle or a deer rifle was training in my view!
 
The one thing I think active duty did for me was wake me up to the fact that there are make gov people who do not trust me with my weapons. I was 18 just arrived on Ft.Knox and this was early 94 and the assault weapons ban was coming so I run down and bought an SKS ( Hey I was E-2 not much $$ :) ) Having heard that you must register guns on post and keep them in the arms room I set my new gun on the front seat of my truck and drove to the Provist Marshal's office to register. Thank God I did not try to carry the SKS inside to register, because when I was talking to the man he asked "were is the gun now" Me-"outside in my truck" Dude looks around and whispers "at least you are being honest, now get in your truck and get that thing off post!!" I was very confused. Appently the weapon must be registered prior to coming on post. which requied my comanders approvale. The FFL I bought the gun from was cool and let me keep it there until proper forms were complete.

The saga does not stop yet!! I had to have my comanders approval. The comander called all his commander type buddies on what to do with this "militia survivalist" from MT. He then drug me into his office asked me a list of STUPID and repeated qwuestions. Then I finnally got his approval to store my SKS next to all of HIS M-16A2, SAW's, M-2's,Ect. The first time I drew it out to go shoot he told me not to bring it back. So I left it at my girlfriend's-later wife.

I now consider all this the best experence of my life. After growing up in MT and taking RKBA for granted. It was almost a turning point in my life? Into guns now more than ever!

I also have been told that some Army post-Hood I think was making soldiers who lived OFF POST register weapons also.

Later
Daren
 
Daren:

An old friend of mine is still stationed at Ft. Hood...I'll talk with him next week and confirm if that is true or not.

I know that if I was still on active duty and stationed at Hood, living in my own home off post that I would'nt be registering any of my POWs. I would take it to the Army IG and my elected representatives...it just wouldn't happen.

Mike
 
I agree, Do not get too paranoid on this one. The Navy has been doing it for years and each base varies. Some do not maintain a numerical restriction (I.E. one per home0 And others as in Doc's case do. Althought I am in the Navy I am attached to a Marine base, they just want to know what you have on base in housing, don't care how many just what. On another base here in the local area they will issue you a gun card so that you can transport your weapons (private) on base to and from the Navy gun range. I would not be that concerned as the Airforce is following in the footsteps of the other services......
 
I agree, Do not get too paranoid on this one. The Navy has been doing it for years and each base varies. Some do not maintain a numerical restriction (I.E. one per home0 And others as in Doc's case do. Althought I am in the Navy I am attached to a Marine base, they just want to know what you have on base in housing, don't care how many just what. On another base here in the local area they will issue you a gun card so that you can transport your weapons (private) on base to and from the Navy gun range. I would not be that concerned as the Airforce is following in the footsteps of the other services......


------------------
...“ They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” --Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

..."The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." --Thomas Jefferson

... "The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are constitutional rights secure." Albert Einstein

... "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction."Ronald Reagan
Take care and God Bless, El Jefe
 
Ozzie223;

Careful how you think about those AF officers, if you start talking to them you might be surprised. Assume you're at Ellsworth, I spent 4 years there in 81-85, many (I mean MANY) of the officers I worked and stood alert with were FFLs, one enlisted troop in fact obtained my S&W .41 Mag for me, several I knew were Class 3 dealers and quite a few owned full-auto ARs.

And as an officer for 20 years myself, I can tell you I slept with a full-auto shorty XM loaded and locked beside my bed for a year probably before you were out of short pants, '71-72. Just because we walk around mud puddles rather than through them doesn't mean we don't understand and appreciate firearms just as much as you do.

There are dingbats in every group, but that's not a reason to assume everybody is one.
 
Hi, I'm back!

Pardon me, but isn't there a actual federal law, enacted about, oh, 1968, which flatly prohibits the federal government from registering firearms? And isn't the Army a branch of the federal government?

------------------
Sic semper tyranus!
 
As a 19 1/2 year military man I just gots to comment!
With all due respect to the career O's on the board, when the order comes down to confiscate the private weapons on base you'll click your heels and do just that. You may grumble, you may protest, you may even write a strongly worded letter to the IG, but you'll obey the order.

I wonder how many officers refused to confiscate registered "assault weapons" on California military bases recently? I don't recall reading about a slew of Courts Martials in that state - I guess they "went along".

I've avoided living on base for the last ten years and this is one of the reasons for that. I think the writing is on the wall. If you can get off base, do so now.

Six months and counting....



------------------
Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Larry P. -

I stand by my statement about AF officers I've known. I should specify though, that the majority of the ones I did know well were not on this base, but rather an ATC base. I've never met a more politically correct group of office politics players since, and I lived and worked in silicon valley for 3 years in the early 90's! I sincerely hope you are the rule, and that I've been overexposed to the exception.

My original post was not meant to be a generalization of AF officers ; just my opinion on the ones I've dealt with closely. Concerning that small group, my observations are accurate.

After reading the posts here, I have relaxed towards the idea of registering my firearms. After all, other services have done it for a long time, and moving off base IS an option should POW (personally owned weapons) become banned on base. They can't confiscate legal personal property, but they can add it to a "disapproved" list.

I am still curious as to how far up the chain this started, but the motivations could easily be just to get in line with the other services. Perhaps this really is "much to do about nothing." If it isn't, I can always pack up the Ozzie-mobile and get a trailer. :-)

[This message has been edited by Ozzie223 (edited October 11, 1999).]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top