Regarding the NFA itself...(I think)

[nrgetik]

i see. wow.

 

[pickpocket]

Like I said.....

Quit trying to skirt the law!

 

[gunslinger555]

if you realy want a legal full auto for fun but dont want to go through the process get a ruger 10/22 and a bmf activator or something like it its the closest you are going to get to full auto without registration (legally )

edit: or an ak and bump fire it

 

[nrgetik]

Like I said.....

Quit trying to skirt the law!

and if the law is unfair, overly restrictive, and pretty much a bunch of bullsh*t?

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it."
-Abraham Lincoln

i'm not intending to start an argument, but this is how i feel about the matter.

 

[san_chang4837]

I say

I don't know much about guns, but if I could get an auto, I would get the Walther G22 and make it an auto, enlarge the mag, and let the mice in my house really have it!

 

[pickpocket]

and if the law is unfair, overly restrictive, and pretty much a bunch of bullsh*t?

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it."
-Abraham Lincoln

i'm not intending to start an argument, but this is how i feel about the matter.

You feel this strongly about not being able to own a fully automatic weapon?

Tell me, Rambo...what would you do with a fully-automatic, non-mounted weapon? Why do you think that the U.S. has gone with single shot carbine ever since Vietnam? Do you have any idea how difficult it is to leverage effective fires with a fully automatic shoulder-fired weapon?

So my question to you is WTF would you do with it that you feel SO strongly about?

 

[nrgetik]

I would shoot it, at a range, and have a kicka*s time doing it.

And yes, I know -exactly- how difficult it is to leverage effective fires with a fully automatic shoulder-fired weapon.

A local range has 5 or so different types of fully automatic weapons for rental, and I have fired this:

http://www.colt.com/law/smg.asp

And this:

http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/index.jsp?loc=231&SITEID=B&PartNumber=MP51

At LENGTH. I've also popped off some rounds from a WWII Thompson that one of the guys who works there brought in one day, but not nearly as many as from the other two guns. Needless to say, I'm a pretty good shot Regardless what kind of weapon it is...

Even if I were a terrible shot however, who cares? I can still have a great time shooting it. Since when does one have be dead-on-balls accurate with a firearm to have fun shooting it? I'm not sure where you're from, but that isn't how it works around here.

Do you go home from the range with a sad puppy face if you don't get bullseyes on all of your targets? Boo hoo.

Anyway, it is a terrible fallacy to argue against my passion concerning the subject simply based upon the notion that I don't really NEED a weapon of that sort, if indeed that is what you are doing (I'm pretty sure it is). For instance, you don't really NEED to be posting on this forum, neither do you really NEED to be using the Internet in general, or do you even NEED a computer at all. You probably do LOTS of things you don't NEED to do, and possess LOTS of things you don't NEED to possess (especially if we're talking about the basic Freudian needs here), everybody does. In short, for you to use such logic would make you a colossal hypocrite, because surely there are many things in your life that you particularly like to have or do, even though you don’t really need to have or do them.

Keep it coming, pal; this is so easy, it’s like taking candy from a baby

 

[afsnco]

Process?

Could someone explain the process of acquiring an NFA weapon? I know about subguns.com and the classified ads there. If I saw one I wanted and could afford, what would I need to do? I don't currently have an FFL.

 

[James K]

You don't need any kind of federal license to buy a full auto firearm. You do need to obtain a Form 4, application to transfer a NFA firearm, and have it signed by your local chief law enforcement officers. This step is sometimes the big one, or the impossible one if the CLEO just won't sign. (You can incorporate as corporations don't need the CLEO signature, but that invites additional scrutiny from BATFE.)

Then you wait for approval. If the transfer is interstate, the gun must be sent to a class 3 dealer in your state or, if you have a C&R license and it is a C&R item, it can be transferred directly to you.

On that 1930's business, the idea was to use the public demand to "do something" about gangster guns in the prohibition era to effectively ban all guns and stifle any possible revolt against Roosevelt's policies. The Roosevelt administration first asked for registration and huge transfer taxes on all guns and ammunition. ($10,000 for a machinegun, $5000 for a handgun, $1000 for a rifle, $500 for a shotgun, plus $10 per round on handgun ammo, $5 on CF rifle ammo, $2 on a shotshell, and $1 on a RF round (.22). All guns and ammunition would have had to be registered, and the administration could refuse registration and confiscate the guns of "unsuitable" people (like Republicans). Congress watered it down to the $200 on machineguns, and a few other weapons, where it is today.

Jim

 

[afsnco]

Jim Keenan: Thanks very much. I've read the long treatise by James Bardwell on subguns.com, but there's so much info there it's difficult to determine where a "John Q. Public" like me stands. It looks like this is the applicable area of his commentary:
"An individual otherwise able to own any gun under federal law can receive and own any NFA weapon (local law permitting, ATF cannot approve a transfer where federal, state or local law would be violated by the transferee possessing the weapon in question, see 26 U.S.C. sec. 5812(a)(6)) on a Form 4, "Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of Firearm". Non-FFL holders may only purchase an NFA weapon from a dealer or individual within their own state. If the weapon is located out of state it must be transferred to a class 3 dealer within the state, before transfer to the non FFL purchaser."
Thanks again for your help.

 

[pickpocket]

Keep it coming, pal; this is so easy, it’s like taking candy from a baby

So...you're really just angry that there's a law that makes it difficult for you to do something that you consider fun; so much so that you feel compelled to quote Abraham Lincoln and imply that the government should be overthrown becuase it is overly restrictive?

Whether or not I NEED to post to this forum is an invalid argument, because while I may not NEED to post to this forum, I am most certainly not complaining that there is a law preventing me from doing so...because there's not one, nor am I implying that I NEED to do so, or that the existing laws governing internet usage prevent me from exercising a constitutional right.

Point being that you are ranting against the unfairness of government in restricting your use of fully-automatic weapons for pure entertainment value, whereas posting in this forum is simply partaking in a completely legal and non-regulated event; Apples and oranges.

Do I go home with sad puppy faces if my rounds don't hit the target? No, but on the other side of that I don't consider 'training' to be shooting from the hip and having a rip-roaring time shooting a hundred poorly aimed rounds through my weapon because it's fun to do so... every round that leaves my weapon has a purpose, whether it be to hone target acquisition skills or dynamic shooting skills. If I don't hit the target then that's an indicator that more training is needed. So it appears that you and I are on completely different ends of the spectrum here.

I'm not arguing against your passion on the basis that you don't NEED a fully-automatic weapon. I am, however, arguing the logic of your decision to complain about the overly-restrictive government on the basis that the law makes it difficult for you to have fun. If you want to rant against the government's restrictive policies it should be on a more stable platform.

Besides...if all you want to do is shoot it at a local range and have a kick@ss time doing it...why don't you just continue to rent the full-autos that you have already "trained" extensively on?

 

[nrgetik]

Whether or not I NEED to post to this forum is an invalid argument, because while I may not NEED to post to this forum, I am most certainly not complaining that there is a law preventing me from doing so...because there's not one, nor am I implying that I NEED to do so, or that the existing laws governing internet usage prevent me from exercising a constitutional right.

Point being that you are ranting against the unfairness of government in restricting your use of fully-automatic weapons for pure entertainment value, whereas posting in this forum is simply partaking in a completely legal and non-regulated event; Apples and oranges.

You don't understand what I was refuting. You got it all mixed up. I was saying, IF you are using the logic that I shouldn't complain based upon the fact that I don't necessarily NEED the weapons (which is what your language implied), then it is a fallacy to do so, for the reasons I originally cited; I don't believe I need to go over them again. I wasn't comparing what you were doing with what I was doing, at all.

Reading comprehension > you.

Do I go home with sad puppy faces if my rounds don't hit the target? No, but on the other side of that I don't consider 'training' to be shooting from the hip and having a rip-roaring time shooting a hundred poorly aimed rounds through my weapon because it's fun to do so... every round that leaves my weapon has a purpose, whether it be to hone target acquisition skills or dynamic shooting skills. If I don't hit the target then that's an indicator that more training is needed. So it appears that you and I are on completely different ends of the spectrum here.

I don't know what kind of shooter you are, nor am I going to pretend. However, nowhere in my post did I allude or imply in the LEAST that I'm a crazy a*shole and I get my kicks firing fully automatic weapons while not in complete control of the firearm and in any which direction I please.

The way I shoot usually follows this kind of pattern: 3/4 of the time, I'm doing my best and trying to hone my skills. The other 1/4 consists of having fun, within reason (and safety). For instance, "let's put the target all the way down range and see if we can hit it with the most inaccurate firearm we have." Obviously it is more important to you that you do your best on every shot, but I wouldn't necessarily say we're on other ends of the spectrum. Although, I'm extremely glad I'm not like you. Extremely.

I'm not arguing against your passion on the basis that you don't NEED a fully-automatic weapon.

Then what the hell were your first two paragraphs for? Perhaps you can read and comprehend, so is it just that you enjoy wasting your time? Or perhaps you merely need a lesson in semantics? You could have just said this in the beginning of your post and left it at that. I would've believed you, even though it seems to me that this was EXACTLY what you were implying in your other post.

If you want to rant against the government's restrictive policies it should be on a more stable platform.

Since when was this a requirement for me to express my feelings? ESPECIALLY if you're going to consider what I'm doing "ranting"? I mean, it isn't like I'm appealing to the government, here. Last time I checked, this was a friendly forum upon which people can discuss things. I hadn't realized the entire forum revolved around you and you require a stable platform for people to base their opinions off of, otherwise you just try to stomp all over it (HOWEVER UNSUCCESSFULLY, I AM HAVING A BLAST ).

ANYWAYS, I seem to remember something about this country being founded on a concept...oh yeah, they called it freedom. The American Dream and such. I believe it has something to do with having faith that through hard work, perseverance, and determination, one can achieve a better life for oneself. Did that not include one's choice as far as recreational activities go? That is what this is, is it not? I consider it to be extremely recreational, and I happen to want to own and be able to use a fully automatic firearm for my recreational activities, but the government is very effectively stopping me from doing that. How is this not restrictive?

Besides...if all you want to do is shoot it at a local range and have a kick@ss time doing it...why don't you just continue to rent the full-autos that you have already "trained" extensively on?

I don't know about you, but there's a certain satisfaction I get from owning and maintaining my own things. I take a sense of pride from being able to show someone what I've acquired with my hard-earned dollars, to show them what great shape I keep it in using all of the methods/skills I have learned to service it, and how fun it is to use. Do you not get that feeling? If you don't, then I'll probably never be able to convince you of anything, but that doesn't bother me, because I know I'm right

Plus, it would end up costing me more in the long run, I don't want to limit myself to one range, and a whole slough of other, more "practical" reasons that you are probably more receptive to, being the kind of person that you are.

Going to have another go? I can do this for eternity

 

[gunslinger555]

pickpocket, when the gov restricts its citizens to point at which you cannot do something or own something that does not hurt anyone else what do you call that? what if you loved to have your 9mm semi but the gov banned it or your colt sa 45lc? you dont NEED those do you, no you can just go to another caliber so then whats the point? thair is a reasn they call it freedom

 

[nrgetik]

Thank you for putting it so concisely, gunslinger.

 

[cosmolinelover]

chillout pickpocket, he wasn't tryin to start an argument. And besides, gunslinger is right

 

[pickpocket]

If you guys say so. I don't think it was _my_ post that sounded arrogant and self-important, but ok.

Complain away, gentlemen. It's not as though the law came out last week.

 

[nrgetik]

Thanks for the go-ahead.

And you were implying that I was arrogant? Perhaps you should reevaluate things here.

 

[gunslinger555]

pickpocket,who's post sounded arrogant and self-important?

It's not as though the law came out last week.

whats that supposed to mean?

So...you're really just angry that there's a law that makes it difficult for you to do something that you consider fun; so much so that you feel compelled to quote Abraham Lincoln and imply that the government should be overthrown becuase it is overly restrictive?

so pickpocket what kind of guns do you own what if the gov banned them and told you that you can own them any more? let me guess youll turn them in hu just because its law does not mean its right.

 

[JohnBrowning]

"You want a full-auto, join the military and become a machine gunner. "

That idea somewhat reminds me of of Hitlers statement that German civilians who wanted to use firearms should join the SS.

 

[tBlake08]

EDIT: He did not reccomend that the goverment should be overthrown, but that we have the right to fight unfair laws.