Refuge of freedom for gunowners.

D

Dagny

New member
Face it guys, we are outnumbered where we are.
Our only hope is to gather together and forge our own free state where we can do what we used. We would again be a large minority or even majority that our politicians would have to respect. In many of our states decades ago it was a political reality that if a politician crossed the gunowners and hunters, his career was over. We can make that a reality again.
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php
http://www.freestateproject.org/join.htm

Otherwise, "they" will continue to grow in numbers and influence.
Who would have thought how far "they" would have gotten by now?
The history in the book UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES is sobering.

We need a refuge because, in spite of it all, we are losing everywhere.
No? Wait until after Hillary or another Democrat again wins the Whitehouse.
They'll make the terrible actions of the Republicans seem like freedom.
 
The biggest problem with the "vote with your feet" mentality (which I have advocated in the recent past) is that it gives "them" complete control of a whole state. As "they" get more states under their control, it gives "them" a bigger say in Congress. As we all know, it is harder to fight for what is right is we have few allies in the fight and the numbers against us are large. It is well and good to count on the SCOTUS to uphold the true intent of the BOR, but what about after "they" appoint the judges?

I think that other than PRK and PRNJ (which are lost causes) we need to stay in all of the states. Look at the steps towards the light that are being made in Ohio and Wisconsin. We are not quite there yet but it is inevitable now that we will be soon.
 
While I can accept many parts of you argument, I don't think you're entirely correct. There are many areas of CONUS that are going down the sewer, but much of the land area is still populated with a majority "right" minded people.

The decline of conservative values is evident in places like PRK, PRNJ and my home state, the Maryland Democratische Republik. But, while Kali is pretty much a lost cause, the people in our workers paradise (MD) have recently elected their first Republican Gov. is over thirty years...a candidate who surprisingly wants to "review" this states draconian gun laws to see if they're working or not. The commie mommie, Katie Townsend, ran very strongly on her "gun safety" (read "what else can we ban to make it look like we're doing something") program. Is this a step foward...not in the least. Will it end completely the tide of meaningless laws...doubt it. But it's a start and it makes a point.

That point is much if not the majority of the country doesn't hold those values. The Red / Blue Presidential election maps give an indication of this as well. Look at the ares that voted for Bush v. the areas that voted for what's his name. Even the same map type given in Maryland's election show that the population of the rural areas will vote along the more conservative party lines.

While I periodically REALLY want the running dogs of elitist liberalism to spontaneously combust or some sort of culture war, I think our best response is to stay in those areas (like MD) where there is a strong, albeit often silent, conservative population. Beat the drums...get those nonvoters involved. If we can get more of us involved in these areas and KEEP them involved, I think we can have an impact on those issues and values. It won't change things much at first, but it'll gain us some room.

It's Polyanna, pie in the sky thinking, but getting our vote out is still our best option.

I need coffee now.
S.
 
The problem isn't where we live. It isn't even numbers.

It's laziness. Not enough of use get off our couches and move from behind our computers long enough to VOTE.


but what about after "they" appoint the judges?
Click to expand...


I'm glad you mentioned that, Libertarian. That concern is exactly why you should not throw away your vote on a Libertarian candidate that hasn't got a snowflake's chance of getting elected. Now, if you happen to live in a district where one has a good shot, go for it.

But the Libertarians woiuld do this country a lot more good by getting involved in the Republican Party at the grass roots level. They could help us pull the Republicrats back to being Republicans. They could have a voice in future of this country. As it is, they are just a background noise in the political discourse.
 
Voting for 41 was a wasted vote as far as gun rights goes. He started the last round of bans. Voting for Nixon got the War on Drugs rolling. Voting for W got us the Patriot act and the Dept of Homeland Security. How is my voting my conscience wrong when neither of the big two parties represent me or truly support my rights?

As far as either big party goes, they will appoint judges who will support different halves of my beliefs. Which side depends on the politics of the judge .Neither side will appoint judges who will rule based solely on the US Constitution.

So your point is that I should vote for your guy because we agree on one or two things and gun rights is one of them? What ablout all of the other rights the GOP would prefer to strip us of?
 
I find myself agreeing with CaptainHoek again. It's a long road and you run into a lot of the blue blood, country club Republicans when you get to the Party level, but at the grass roots level, many Republicans are normal, hard working folks who favor the Constitution as written.

Growing up, I always thought that the Democrats wanted to tell you how to spend your money and the Rebublicans wanted to tell you how to live your life -- so I've always leaned Libertarian and voted for the "best man/woman" -- often wasting my vote on a 3rd party -- Libertarian if represented.

Now the Democrats also want to tell us how to live our lives (anti-smoking, anti-gun, anti-SUV, anti-business, using the environment, civil rights and other laws to circumvent the Constitution, etc. etc...). It's funny how so many in the the free-wheeling baby boomer generation worked so hard to rebel against everything in their parents world to do their own thing and now want to tell the rest of us how to live.

Meanwhile, unlike the media stereotype, the Republicans I meet don't follow the "moral majority" path of non-inclusion. They just believe in the USA and want to live and let live.

The Republican party needs opinions and voices like ours. I choose to spend my political efforts trying to pull the Republican party back to the Constitution and put shrinking the size of government back on the agenda.
 
but at the grass roots level
Click to expand...


Libertarian, there's my answer to you. "At the grass roots level".

You mentioned Presidents. You can't start there. You've got to start at the bottom, and if you do it well you can whip the Country Club boys.

If the Libertarians had joined us in Utah, we'd now have solid suporters of the WHOLE Constiutution as governor, Attorney General, and at least one more state legislature seat, and we'd have had a good chance of kicking Orrin Hatch out of the Senate and replacing him with a good man. Oh, and we'd have tossed a liberal out of the House, too. We missed by a very slim margin. VERY slim.


But the Libertarians were off somehwhere having their own little ineffectual party.
 
I too believe that the Grassroots level is where we have to make in-roads to make changes. I always vote for LP candidates for every local election they are running in. We need to get more libs into office at local and state level to get any chance at federal.

At federal level, the grassroots mentality doesn't mean squat and the feds (Dem or Rep) just do whatever they want so long as it strengthens the fed gov regardless of party affiliation. I thought that we were talking about fed level politics.
 
Now let's face the REALLY ugly part. You won't get sufficient numbers of gun owners who are too lazy to volunteer for campaigns, donate time to the GOA or NRA, or even just VOTE to uproot their families and go a-pioneering. Ain't gonna happen.

On the other hand, I've softened a bit from the days when I said "this is my home and I won't give it up." I don't want to kill anyone, and it's beginning to look like that would be my only option (besides surrender) if I stay here. Ergo, I may have to leave.
 
I thought that we were talking about fed level politics.
Click to expand...

Yes, but change there starts at the grass roots. Take control of the state machinery and guess who decides what candidates get to run?

HINT: It won't be the RINOs. If there are no RINO candidates, there soon won't be any RINOs in office at ANY level.

If you want a decent candidates at the Federal level you have to take over the state machinery.

If you want to take over the state machinery you have to take over the county machinery.

And we can do that, if we'll stop acting like 'our votes don't count anyway so we might as well vote on principle'.

Utah is not the only example of a case where the good guys came within a hair's breadth of winning. Had we had the local Libertarians voting with us, we'd have won, and it woiuld have affected at least one Congressional race, and maybe two. Not to mention that a Governor sometimes gets to appoint a Senator. What kind of governor do you want appointing Senators?

It ALL counts.

Or not. Depends how you vote.



Don, that Ugly Part is THE Problem! Solve that and all the rest is taken care of!
 
That's what I'm saying, Cap'n. Right now you won't get many to follow you. Get them educated and riled up enough for them to go, and you won't need to go anymore. They'd be able to change the Motherland or whatever you want to call it.
 
Be great to have a bunch of senior citizens who can "migrate" into sensitive counties or districts and "upset" the vote. Most states or districts that are anti-guns are 40-60 or 45-55% pro gun (first # representing the pro and the second # the antis). The corps of seniors move in and make the anti-gun district 60-40 or 55-45%. We upset the balance (restore is a better word) and get our rights back.

Why senior citizens? Because it's easier for them than anyone else. Gray Panthers (reference to hair color and not Gov. Davis of Kali) can make a bigger stink than almost anyone else and who could say no to grandma or mom?
 
Senior citizens are the problem, not the solution.

As a voting bloc they just want their benefits+

Screw freedom Screw the grandkiddies
 
"they" will continue to grow in numbers and influence.
Who would have thought how far "they" would have gotten by now?



Since the writing of those lines, Alaska passed a "Vermont" bill, Ohio and Missouri went shall issue, and South Carolina (IIRC) repealed their "One-Gun-A-Month" law. :D
 
Last edited:
It will be interesting to see if the Free State project has an impact on New Hampshire politics in the next few years. The idea is to get Libertarian-leaning citizens to move to a targeted state, buy homes and businesses and start getting themselves elected to public decision-making bodies. IF they can reach a critical mass, and IF they can get enough freedom-loving folk to move there and THEN get involved on the grass roots level... They can make a huge impact. They would have a significant say on what local laws are passed and enforced, how tax moneys are allocated and how children are educated. It will be fun to watch how it plays out. I give 'em a thumbs up for effort and hope it works.
 
Neil Boortz, but I think they've kicked him out of the club too. Compromises too darn much! ;)

I just love how these old threads are picking up almost exactly where they left off. It's like a time machine. :D
 
Ol' Neil was given the heave-ho beacuse he parted with the LP on foreign policy. Not surprising after 9/11. I still want the LP domestics but they really need to rethink their "Age of Aquarius Kumbaya" foreign policy plank.
 
The problem isn't where we live. It isn't even numbers.
Click to expand...
It's laziness. Not enough of use get off our couches and move from behind our computers long enough to VOTE.
Click to expand...

Not only too lazy to vote, but too lazy to call their "representative" when a vote is coming up. I run into that all the time. I let my gun-owning friends and relatives know that another ugly anti-gun bill is in committee, and they need to call, write or fax these critters. Can they be bothered? Nope. Bill passes, they grumble.

Also, I also frequently run into the "it doesn't affect me" school of thought. An ugly anti-gun bill is up for a vote, they don't call, because it "won't affect me". Oh. What about your kids? What about the next ugly anti-gun bill? When WILL you get concerned? Will you be concerned when the "authorities" are at your door, expecting you turn over some firearm that's now illegal for you to own? It's too late, then
 
My wife and I joined the Free State Project in June of 2003, living in California, and moved to New Hampshire shortly after the Free State vote was completed, in November of 2003. We're settling in to our new home in Merrimack, and we're liking it very much. Caren no longer has to work to make ends meet, and we have a bigger house on an acre of land for 2/3 what we sold our house in San Jose for.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top