Redesign the 405 winchester.

B

Boogershooter

New member
I've had a idea in my head for years and I've been told for years how dum it is. I'm just curious as to how many of you have had the same thoughts. I'd love to have a 40 to 41 caliber rifle that shoots 225 up to 275 grain bullets in the 2600 to 2800 fps range. I've discussed using the 405 winchester and necking up a 375H&H. Problem with that much velocity is u can't use pistol bullets because they will lead the barrel and nobody was making a good rifle bullet for it. I think hornady has a 300 grain bullet and I know they chose 300 grains for a reason. The lighter bullets n this large of caliber has no sd. I have a 416 rigby and I've been satisfied with that but it's a bit hotter than I truly want in a rolling block rifle. Just a thought I've always had so feel free to chime in and tell me how dum it is.
 
We've all had the same thought, it is a dumb idea.:D

Seriously, the .416 Rigby is just fine for what you want, the .405 Winchester less so. Necking up a .375 H&H would work, there are 300 grain rifle bullets as you mention. My question is, what for?

250 grain bullets bring you down into the pistol bullet area, kind of defeats the purpose of a .40-caliber rifle, doesn't it?

If you want to use it in a rolling block, better stick with light handloads, there is a reason the world adopted the bolt action, it's just not suitable for a lot of modern centerfire cartridges.

My only rolling block is a .43 Danish dated 1884. I'm not about to put a .375 H&H case in that action for any reason, and I wouldn't do it if it came off the assembly line last Tuesday. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel the design was made for early cartridge propellants and is not suitable for modern loads. By 'modern loads', I mean anything following 1895.
 
What's wrong with .405 Winchester?

I don't see any requirements or reasons for avoiding the original.



But, if, for some reason, you really just don't want to use .405 Win...
Essentially what you're looking for is a case of roughly .30-06 size and capacity, with a belt or rim.
9.3x74R immediately comes to mind. Neck it. Blow it out, if necessary. Done.


About a year and a half ago, I was seriously considering a .411/.416 cartridge based on .444 Marlin. It wouldn't have quite the power of .405 Win, but it would be close enough. The biggest reason for me not pursuing it any further was that the two shops with reamers that would work for the concept were shops that wouldn't work for me.
One of them refused to cut a chamber for me (huge backlog); and the other was pretty expensive, way behind on work, and refused to cut a chamber unless his cartridge name was on the rifle (which I refused to allow - at that price point, and with that wait time, I should have the option of naming the chamber myself).
So, the added expense of a custom reamer and custom dies was a bit much, and I stuck with .444 Marlin. I'm sure my brother is glad about that, since it's his rifle now.
 
Yes I agree with you about the pressure levels. The reason why I like this is because I have shot hogs with just about every rifle and pistol I own. 357, 10mm, 41mag, 44mag, 220 swift, 243, 308, 30-06, 30-30, 303brit, 30-40 krag, 358 win, 35 whelen, 338 winmag, 405 win, and 416 rigby. Oh yea 7mm 08, 300 and 270 wsm and I'm sure there's a couple more I havnt mentioned yet but you get the point. I've tried just about everything. I love to hear the bullet pop on impact of a critter. So far the 220 swift and the 35 whelen have the biggest pops on impact. The 45-70 is a big let down on the pop factor. I believe the 405 with a lighter bullet and more velocity would put it at the top of the list. Soft bullets definitely add to the pop factor and that leaves out the 416 rigby, plus it's a heavy beast and don't like carrying it much. Ammo is outrageous. The 300 weatherby with 200 grain ballistic tips I thought would get a great pop. Everyone else in the county can hear it connect with the critters except me pulling the trigger. At long range I can hear it great but at 200 yards or less I don't hear it. So in conclusion if the 35 whelen has this won I'm sure the 405 at same velocities would be the king with the right bullets.
 
Be careful who you talk to. I was messing around with using a .458 case for the 45-70 and all of a sudden Marlin had the .450 Marlin.
 
Get yourself a Ruger No. 1 in .405 Winchester, .375 H&H, or 9.3x74. Do your hog hunting with one of those. You'll find the sound of the impact is going to be a lot less important to you than making your one shot count.

The .416 is too much for hogs, I believe.
 
The 416 is too much for all the critters in North America except a bear. I have a couple of ruger#1's. It's all about the pop to me on hogs. I'm lucky to have have 4 kids that love to eat em. All I have to do is help them hang it and the kids have em cleaned and quartered in minutes. We have alot of hogs here and it's not a challenge to kill them so I'd like to have fun killing them. I was hoping to have somebody say they have done a similar project. Guess maybe I will talk somebody into making a ballistic tip for the 375h&h and try that.
 
Thanks mike. I'm purely ignorant to those but if the oil field doesn't pick back up soon I will have plenty of time to research and build one of those. It sounds like they are onto something good. Guess I better get ready to get into the reloading business lol.
 
Build yourself a 416 Barnes, a 45-70 case necked to .416". Named after Frank Barnes of COTW fame. IIRC, it gives about 2,500 fps with jacketed bullets. Or just build a 444 Marlin.
 
I think you can be cured of that need for an adrenaline rush by shooting the hog with a 12-guage goose load. When you have to go in the brush and finish it off with a slug, that should suffice for a 12-step program for addictive behavior.
 
I admit that my bad experience with the 444 was from the gun and not the cartridge but I just can't bring myself to like it enough to buy another. I often pull hogs out of the thick stuff by their back legs just to get em hobbled. Just a pack of Bay dogs with no catch dog. It's definitely a rush but it don't charge my battery like the pop from a bullet. Maybe I'm just lazy and don't like all the work anymore. I do appreciate the ideas. I'm going to have a rifle built just not sure which way to go yet.
 
Just checked my email and have it lined up to try out the 9.3x74r in a old ruger#1. I will either love it and have a rifle built in it or try to find a 416 barnes. Hopefully will be able to try both but neither are popular down here. Honestly I had never even heard of either one.
 
Get yourself a new Winchester 1885 and have it re-barreled to 40-90 Sharps and shoot smokeless through it, a 40-72 would work too. They used to make 257gr jacketed in the 80s for those but good luck getting them now, unless you want to get some custom swaged bullets.
Basically you want old BP cartridges to shoot smokeless and that'll get what you want.
 
I have a Cimarron 1885 highwall 40-65 I picked up at a garage sale a few years ago. I was told the only good use for it was Trot line weight. Nothing wrong with the gun but Cimarron is what they were talking nasty about. I paid $100 for the gun and thrower it n the closet after I was laughed at for buying it. Guess maybe I should pull it out and see how well it is made.
 
416 Marlin ???

A 416 Lever gun would be awesome . Been thinking of that for many years .
A smaller 416 Taylor off the 450 Marlin case would be a real thumper on hogs , deer , bear . :cool: :D
 
A Cimarron Highwall is a Uberti. Not the best but not a trotline weight.

If the .405 was good enough for Teddy Roosevelt, it ought to be good enough for you.
 
It is a great cartridge and I inherited a few of them but they won't get shot much. I would like to shoot a lighter bullet out of it to get the velocity up. Problem is to shoot the soft pistol bullets the barrel leads up really fast. Maybe hornady will respond to my emails and make a run of 250 grain leverution ammo.
 
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