Redding Carbide Full Length 454 Sizing Die

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STORM2

New member
I arrived here via a web search for better documentation/instructions for my recently purchased Redding 45 Colt/454 Redding Titanium Carbide die. My die came with the standard generic rifle and handgun die set instructions, nothing specific for the carbide set. My issue was roll/bulging at the bottom of the cases. My web search landed me on this forum; a post dated 7 December 2002 in a conversation between several members who have not posted here in some time or changed their screen name. The specific line entry that I keyed on was:

“I have a Redding Titanium Carbide Sizing Die. The instructions note as follows:”

””Carbide pistol sizing dies are not designed to full length size cases. Adjust the die to size only that portion of the case that has been expanded during firing. In some cases an undersirable ring or belt may appear near the base if the sizing die is incorrectly adjusted. This may weaken the case and is not desirable.””

The description noted in the reported/quoted instructions are exactly what I experienced and thus what brought me here. I am hoping someone might have a copy of those instructions. I have been unsuccessful in locating a copy with the carbide specific wording and Redding via phone sent an electric copy with the standard wording with no mention of the carbide/pistol/roll issue. I have no doubt the quoted document existed, I just want a copy.

Thanking you in advance for the assistance. Yep, I’m new, read the rules, understand the drill. Thanks to the web folks for assisting me with issues created because my typing is almost as bad as my shooting....probably because I’m using the same finger. Keep smiling.
 
I've never heard of a ring/belt appearing near the base of pistol cases when using a carbide die adjusted to full-length* size the case.
(It can happen on repeated firing of max-powered belted rifle cases though)






* backed off a hair's thickness if the [old style] carbide insert protrudes below the die body
 
Are you sure you’re not just seeing the ‘ring’ where the sizing portion has ended vs. a bulge/ belt? There is a mark left where the actual sizing die ends which is normal and won’t affect anything in a negative way.
 
Thanks for the reply/s. I’ll finish my current bench project and get the press/die back on line. I’ll see how well the issue photographs, get some measurements and get them posted. The issue happens consistently on new unfired Starline 454 brass, once fired FA ammo and another brand I don’t recall. The carbide ring does not protrude. The bulge will be measurable and is visible. I have access to several hand loaders who have many years experience including big bore and competition loading. They are savvy on high pressure indicators. Their input was to not size to the bottom of the case. I feel this is the answer, I just want to see it in writing. Stand by.
 
They all do that. It quits sizing just short of the very bottom of the brass. I’ve got thousands of empties in handgun cartridges with that mark near the base of the shell. It’s normal. One other thing: you can get two different sizing dies that don’t size exactly the same. I have two fairly new brand name dies that don’t size exactly the same. They both leave a mark, one is just a bit more pronounced than the other. Both size to spec allowing for +/-. If the finished product chambers, shoots, and doesn’t split, you’re good to go.
 
Thanks for the input. After putting the yard stick on the brass it turns out the portion that appears bulged is actually the original diameter. The line is the top or bottom of the die whichever way you think/look. The line is not as apparent if I back the die out 11 cents worth. The good news is with everyone’s input/assistance my mole hill is not a mountain. The bad news is now I’ve got a bunch of brass to size. The case with the pinch in it is virgin. The other two are sized per Redding docs. The blue Dykem indicates unfired during the autopsy. Thanks again, I’ll probably use a spacer for consistency. Some time being wrong is great!
 

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That looks like a very distinct line , much more so than I normally associate with the mark left where the sizing die leaves off. It looks almost more like case head separation. I would shine a bright light down in the case to see if you can see if it’s separating or do the bent paper clip test.
 
Looks to me like brass being extruded toward the head. The web on those high pressure cases is thick and the brass that is close to it is thicker at the sides at the point the line is appearing, there is apparently enough diametric resistance to the sizing die that some of the brass is being flowed back and down off the surface rather than squeezed inward.

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Storm2,

You will find the brass down that far doesn't expand on firing like the thinner brass nearer the mouth does. You can use your diameter measurement to determine where expansion of width stops and just not resize below that point. However, I will point out that when you seat your bullets in the resized brass, you will notice (or can measure) where expansion by the press-fit of the bullet into the case stops below the mouth. You really only need to resize that far down unless or until you start to have trouble ejecting the brass from your revolver's cylinder or trouble with it not feeding smoothly in your carbine. Indeed, leaving the brass a little fat below the seating depth of the bullet will help the cartridge center in the chamber and help the bullet line up with the bore, tending to improve accuracy. If the unresized portion of the brass below that point finally gets too fat to use easily (hard to eject or had to chamber), then you turn the die in enough to resize the expanded-above-original-diameter portion of the case.
 

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NoSecondBest said:
They all do that. It quits sizing just short of the very bottom of the brass.
Click to expand...

While I can see a line on my brass where the carbide ring quits sizing my brass, I reload for .460 and my RCBS carbide die does not leave the significant "bulge"/distortion at the base like shown with the OP's photo. I would be concerned with that weakening the case at the critical spot on the web where you see case head separation.
 
I think it is time to follow the directions. Putting a sharp line on the brass like that cannot be good for it.

I have not seen the effect with any of my RCBS, Lyman, CH, or Dillon carbide dies, but I have seen it on the Internet.
 
I’ve got some .357mag cases that look like that. They came from some loads that were supposedly “OK” according to some data I found from a reliable source. I won’t share the load. I was using 1680 powder and Hornady XTB bullets. When I backed the load down by two grains the marking disappeared. I don’t see where the OP tells what loads he was using in the sample cases he shows. It’s possible that they were like my .357max loads....too much pressure. FWIW, I was using new RP cases.
 
Thanks Unclenick, my local folks agree with your idea to size only the expansion portion. So it turns out I could have probably used my 45 Colt dies after all.
I remain open to other ideas/questions.
 
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Jim Watson, following the instructions is how I got here. The documentation says all the way to the bottom. It seems many disagree. There is evidence that carbide die rules are different than standard dies.
 
My concern is your loads may be bulging the case beyond what the resizer die can handle. Some guns bulge cases more than others like a 357 lever gun vs a revolver for example. Just a couple of thoughts.
 
rc: There are no fired brass involved. The entire conversation/issue is based/photographed of new Starline brass with a factory new Redding titanium carbide full length sizing die that has less than 25 strokes on it.
I have yet to load any 454 cartridges. I’m still fat on store bought ammo.
My purpose from the get go is to load ammo at the bottom end of the pressure profile. Thanks for the input/caution, I’m the guy with the opposite loading issues. I’m always looking for lighter than factory loads.
 
STORM2 said:
I have yet to load any 454 cartridges. I’m still fat on store bought ammo.
My purpose from the get go is to load ammo at the bottom end of the pressure profile. Thanks for the input/caution, I’m the guy with the opposite loading issues. I’m always looking for lighter than factory loads.
Click to expand...

If you are going to load at the bottom end, than resizing just enough of the case to get proper neck tension should be all that is needed. I would try a few cases in you gun after sizing and before charging, to make sure they fit the chambers.
 
Yep. As I mentioned in my previous post, your cartridges will center better in the chamber if you leave them expanded below the bullet. If you use a Lyman M type expander profile so you can set the bullets straight up and down in the case mouth for seating, that will also improve accuracy.

Lighter loads will mean that expansion of the case below the bullet is not going to be enough to require full resizing of the expanded area every time and perhaps not ever if they are light enough. With light loads, you will also find you don't need as severe a crimp to keep bullets from backing out, and perhaps just a taper crimp will be adequate. That will greatly extend brass life, too.
 
The OP of

””Carbide pistol sizing dies are not designed to full length size cases. Adjust the die to size only that portion of the case that has been expanded during firing. In some cases an undersirable ring or belt may appear near the base if the sizing die is incorrectly adjusted. This may weaken the case and is not desirable.””

is new to me. I set carbide dies according to old Lyman instructions with a SMALL space between die and shell holder so as to avoid cracking the carbide insert.

On the rare occasion that I have seen a sharp line as shown here, I assume it is over used or over loaded brass and discard it. If I had it happen on new brass, I would probably wig out, too.
 
I justr went to look at my 45 Colt dies

- I have an RCBS carbide in which the carbide portion starts 1/4" inside the die. Steel thereafter down to the mouth. Smooth results.

- I have a Redding Carbide "Dual Ring" die that does (but very smoothly) size two diameters on the case.

But NEVER have I seen what the OP showed as a hard step ring at the base on any carbide dies that I've ever used.
 
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