Red dot on your Pistol

How significant 1.2 oz is depends on how much you value weight and how heavy the pistol is to begin with. My two lightest handguns weigh less than 10 oz unloaded so the RMR you mentioned would increase their weight by 12% or more. That being said, the added bulk is more my concern as when I carry a small handgun, it's usually in a pocket holster and when I carry OWB (I've never found IWB to be particularly comfortable) its usually with a large enough gun that extra bulk would be problematic. The extra bulk of the red dot also limits my choice of holsters somewhat and some of my favorite holsters are not available for guns with a red dot.



I'm not so confident in that. The handguns that I shoot out to 50 yards are chambered cartridges that are relatively high-velocity, and thus flat shooting, at least by handgun standards like .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, and 10mm Auto. With iron sights, I notice a significant difference in POI between shorter and longer distances and the higher sight offset of a red dot could only accentuate this. Is the difference insurmountable? Probably not but I don't want to make things any more complicated than I need to.



I don't think that the difference is insurmountable or that using a red dot will "ruin" your iron sight shooting, but its another complication that I, personally, would rather not add. I own a variety of different pistols with differing styles of controls, actions, triggers, etc. and, because of this, I try to use techniques that are as "universal" as possible. For example, because not all of my handguns have a slide stop that is easy, or even possible, to use to release the slide, I've adopted the "slingshot" method for reloading because it works with all of my semi-autos. I also use a "thumbs down" grip and press the trigger with the distal joint of my finder because those techniques work well for me with both revolvers and semi-autos.

You also mentioned that you shoot red dot equipped pistols weekly. While I commend you for your diligence, I don't get the opportunity to shoot nearly that often due to time, finances, distance, and life in general. Because I can't get nearly the range time in that you do, it would likely take me a lot longer to develop proficiency with a red dot. I've been shooting handguns with irons for decades and, while I may be rusty and thus not as proficient as I'd like, the basic skill is still there if somewhat atrophied. Likewise, many of my handguns are not only for my use, but for other members of my household who, unfortunately, get to the range even less frequently than I do. For these people, developing proficiency with a red dot is a skill that may never come and thus having one on a pistol that they have to use would be more hindrance than help.

Finally, as I said earlier, the majority of my handguns simply aren't practical to put a red dot on. In actuality, I only own one pistol that is cut for a red dot: my S&W M&P 2.0 10mm. Many of my handguns are older and out-of-production and modifying them to accept a red dot would significantly diminish their value and still others simply aren't capable of being so-modified (I think an RMR might actually be just a big, if not bigger, than my Beretta Jetfire or Kel-Tec P3AT :p). Even of the ones which I might be willing to have milled, the expense of doing so doesn't offer enough benefit to be worth it to me. I'm not trying to say that red dots aren't worthwhile for anyone, just not for me.


I have repeatedly shot handguns with red dots from 3 yd to 100 yd and been able to reliably make hits. Your uncertainty is of course your own, but I have experience doing this.

If you choose not to use a red dot that’s of course your call. I am not you and you are not me. Nothing I said above is me saying you “must” or even “should”, it’s me countering arguments that I have seen regularly (some I even held myself) that I found untrue in my own experience. The discussion is the point here.
 
In general.

I suppose you could be doing the light version.

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I would be interested in a description of how countering what I see as some misconceptions while not saying the person I was replying to was wrong in any way is my attempting to convince anyone “so vehemently”, on what was literally my first post of this thread? Especially when I follow it up with acknowledging that what a person chooses to do is of course their call. Sometimes people disagree. As far as I can tell, everyone has done so politely up to this point. If you have an issue personally, I’d prefer you take it to PMs.
 
I would be interested in a description of how countering what I see as some misconceptions while not saying the person I was replying to was wrong in any way is my attempting to convince anyone “so vehemently”, on what was literally my first post of this thread? Especially when I follow it up with acknowledging that what a person chooses to do is of course their call. Sometimes people disagree. As far as I can tell, everyone has done so politely up to this point. If you have an issue personally, I’d prefer you take it to PMs.
"Up until this point"?

Yeesh... Mainly the long replies. Seem excessive.

Personal? How would grown men talking about pistols and optics turn personal? I'm confused.

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"Up until this point"?

Yeesh... Mainly the long replies. Seem excessive.

Personal? How would grown men talking about pistols and optics turn personal? I'm confused.

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What is wrong with “up until this point”?

Long replies? I had three segments, which were responded to by even longer segments, to which I had a short response. Sometimes explanations take time. The person I was responding to seems to understand that as well.

I agree on the confusion.
 
originally posted by TunnelRat
I have repeatedly shot handguns with red dots from 3 yd to 100 yd and been able to reliably make hits. Your uncertainty is of course your own, but I have experience doing this.

If you say the sight offset makes little difference to you, then I will defer to your experience as my only experience with red dots is, admittedly, on rifles. I did not state that the sight offset would definitely be a problem, only that I was concerned it might be. For you with your firearms, it apparently isn't.

If you choose not to use a red dot that’s of course your call. I am not you and you are not me. Nothing I said above is me saying you “must” or even “should”, it’s me countering arguments that I have seen regularly (some I even held myself) that I found untrue in my own experience. The discussion is the point here.

I'm not arguing for or against red dots on handguns, I was simply stating why I don't feel they're the best choice for me. Evidently they are a good choice for you, and that's great.
 
If you say the sight offset makes little difference to you, then I will defer to your experience as my only experience with red dots is, admittedly, on rifles. I did not state that the sight offset would definitely be a problem, only that I was concerned it might be. For you with your firearms, it apparently isn't.



I'm not arguing for or against red dots on handguns, I was simply stating why I don't feel they're the best choice for me. Evidently they are a good choice for you, and that's great.


And I respect your explanation. If what I said above came across differently that was not the intent. Me replying with counterpoints to your earlier points wasn’t me saying “you’re wrong”, it just worked as a springboard for discussion points because those are concerns I had when I started shooting red dots and I have seen expressed by others.

To be clear, I don’t consider that what I am doing here is arguing “for” red dots. All I can do is share what I found in using them personally.
 
What is wrong with “up until this point”?

Long replies? I had three segments, which were responded to by even longer segments, to which I had a short response. Sometimes explanations take time. The person I was responding to seems to understand that as well.

I agree on the confusion.
Perhaps I've been away from forums for too long. I check in less than quarterly.

I just stop and agree to disagree (if that) when someone is doing their own thing that differs from me. In this case, it isn't the OP but a commenter sharing his own opinion the same way you did and the same way I did.

Again though. Might just be me away from forums for a long time. The long replies when someone is already set in their way goes above planting the seed.

I think the OP has some good info here. Personally, a RDS on a pistol has pros and cons same as anything else. Just depends what matters to the end user.

Kind of going to leave it at that. Not one for a never-ending back and forth over something that doesn't contribute anything positive to me.
 
Perhaps I've been away from forums for too long. I check in less than quarterly.

I just stop and agree to disagree (if that) when someone is doing their own thing that differs from me. In this case, it isn't the OP but a commenter sharing his own opinion the same way you did and the same way I did.

Again though. Might just be me away from forums for a long time. The long replies when someone is already set in their way goes above planting the seed.

I think the OP has some good info here. Personally, a RDS on a pistol has pros and cons same as anything else. Just depends what matters to the end user.

Kind of going to leave it at that. Not one for a never-ending back and forth over something that doesn't contribute anything positive to me.


I don’t see what happened here as being a never ending back and forth, though, in terms of the discussion between Webley and I (heck it ended before your last comment). I shared my experience in an attempt to offer some counterpoints to some concerns they had, and then they went on to explain why they do what they do for the pistols they use and how other members of his family factor in. This gave me something to think about if I suggest red dots to others in the future.

Not every thought can be shrunk down into a Tweet length comment. Sometimes explanations take time and sometimes people disagree or have different points of view. That doesn’t mean one person is attempting to change someone set in their way or is attempting to be vehement. Some of the most meaningful conversations I have had are learning why someone thinks differently than me. I guess my point is let a discussion between two people that aren’t you play out a bit before raising a flag.
 
I don’t see what happened here as being a never ending back and forth, though, in terms of the discussion between Webley and I (heck it ended before your last comment). I shared my experience in an attempt to offer some counterpoints to some concerns they had, and then they went on to explain why they do what they do for the pistols they use and how other members of his family factor in. This gave me something to think about if I suggest red dots to others in the future.

Not every thought can be shrunk down into a Tweet length comment. Sometimes explanations take time and sometimes people disagree or have different points of view. That doesn’t mean one person is attempting to change someone set in their way or is attempting to be vehement. Some of the most meaningful conversations I have had are learning why someone thinks differently than me. I guess my point is let a discussion between two people that aren’t you play out a bit before raising a flag.
Agree to disagree.

Keeping the OP in mind, I commented my original comment and then some. I don't feel I overstepped.

Anyway, have a good day!
 
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