Recommended reloading dies for .357mag Black Powder

H

horseman308

New member
I'm gonna experiment with loading Black Powder in my Vaqueros and Uberti 73 for Cowboy Action (rather than just go buy a bunch of new guns first). I know some people poo-poo the idea of BP in a
.357 case, so if your response is "don't bother" or "get a different gun" then please keep it to yourself.

I'm not new to Black Powder at all. Been shooting muzzleloaders, cap and ball, and single-shot BPCR for several years. However, I AM new to reloading for lever guns in particular. I've read the Lyman 49th edition and cast bullet manuals. I know carbide dies are preferred to avoid having to lube cases.

My big question concerns crimping cases for the lever gun. I'm not worried about bullet setback on a black powder load. There won't be any empty space inside the case for the bullet to push into. Nor am I super worried about fouling. Been managing fouling for a long time, and cleaning BP isn't hard. But I certainly want the rounds to cycle and feed smoothly. I am aware that there is a debate between roll crimping and taper crimping for lever guns. What type of crimp and how tight would y'all suggest?

Next question is how much case sizing needs to be done. I don't size or crimp at all for my Sharps, but that's a single shot. For lever guns and revolvers, should I be full length sizing or just neck sizing?

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 
I occasionally load .38 Special with APP for Frontier Cartridge. I have the standard Hornady dies which work fine. I use a roll crimp on rimmed cartridges.

I shot some Goex charged .357 Magnum ammo in my revolvers this year. Not much difference in recoil compared to my usual APP .38s with the same bullet weight.

A friend of mine who loads and shoots tons of BP cartridges uses Lee dies in his Dillon press with no issues.
 
If you're going to fully-fill w/BP, you really don't need any crimp at all.
Just straighten the mouth out after belling.
 
You might want to look closely at the Big Lube (biglube.com) Snakebite bullet for 38/357. It carries a lot more lube than most 38 cal bullets. Otherwise your rifle is likely to foul up in the last 4-8 inches of barrel. If you don't mind doing a wet "pull through" swabbing between CAS shooting stages or about every 10 rounds then you can use whatever bullet you want.

I have used the standard Lyman 358311 158 gr RNFB bullet for years with BP but found it did not carry enough lube. If I wanted decent accuracy I had to pull a wet swab through between every CAS match stage but got tired of getting my sleeve blackened with fouling.

The Snakebite bullet (comes in a 6 cavity gang mold) just didn't reliably feed through all 3 of my model 92s or I would have used it. It should serve you well for both the rifle and pistol if you don't mind doing a bit of casting once or twice a year. I've never met Dick Dastardly but his Big Lube "greasewagon" Snakebite bullet (designed by "Snakebite") is a good one for BP in CAS matches.
 
Hellgate, thanks for the tip. I have seen the big lube bullets and wondered whether they would be better for the rifle. Glad to know there's a mold I can get.

Mehavy, thanks also. I hadn't thought about forward creep.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 
I second the Snakebite Grease Wagon bullet for 357. Carbide sizer die and a roll crimp. Besides carrying more lube the bullet design cycles well in lever actions, especially in 38 Special cases.
 
Just (yesterday) ran a 1/2 box of my new Big Lube bullets down the 24" barrel on my original '73 .44 WCF. Was having bad fouling of the last 6" of her barrel even with a little lube cookie, but not yesterday. I believe that the extra lube in a grove lubes better than a "glob" behind the bullet.
 
IIRC the Snakebite bullet was designed to have .357 OAL cartridge in a 38 SPL case. Some 38/357 rifles prefer .357 ammo hence the longer OAL for the 38.
 
Lever actions require FL resizing. Same as a pump or semi-auto. Has to do with the relative strength of the bolt's camming.
BP in a .357 case is about the volume. BP is loaded in grains by volume, not mass like smokeless. I don't remember if there are .357 BP loads in the Lyman BP Handbook and Reloading Guide or not, but that's the place to look. Vs their 49th Edition.
 
Any good set of dies will work. Nothing special really needed for 38/357 BP. Just make sure yu have enough BP in the case so you get a slightly compressed load. I load my by volume - a 38 Colt Long casing used as a measure gives me the right amount for 38 spell.

i load on a Lee 4 hle turret - I have a separate turret plat with dies for my 38357 BP for one reason - using BP lube can sometimes get messy in the seating die. IIRC - I have a Lee carbide fl sizer die with the depriming pin removed (I deprime all my brass with a universal deriming die jn a single stage press for all my brass - pistol, bottle neck rifle, etc.). I expand with an old Lyman AA expander die and seat with an old Lyman AA seating die. I like to roll crimp and I think I have an old RCBS die for that - but - if you're happy with a taper crimp and it works for you that's fine. I can't speak to your rifle or usage - in a tubular magazine I just prefer to use a roll crimp.

if I'm going to load a bunch, I may pull the seating stem and clean the die with a q tip and solvent to get excess lube out - then reset the seating stem to correct depth with a dummy round that's the OAL.

Good luck and enjoy. I had a Ruger NV that I used for BP - have it consigned now as I love my Uberti Bisley 357 so the NV was just collecting dust.
 
Pathfinder45 said:
I'm wondering what kind of velocity y'all are getting with BP loads in your 357 magnums?
Click to expand...
I've only read, so no personal experience, but around 750-800fps seems to be the ball park for pistols, depending on powder charge, compression, and bullet weight. Faster out of the rifles.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 
Data (20"):

1873-357-BP-sm.jpg


Which (gasp) is exactly the ballistics of Black Hills Cowboy 357 (surprise, surprise...)
;)


.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Mehavey. I see that is shot from an Uberti 1873.....Should I assume that it indicates a copy of an 1873 Colt revolver, or an 1873 Winchester? Barrel length?
This is all quite interesting as it shows that real Black Powder remains a viable option with respectable performance even in this century.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top