recommendations for a very specific type of bolt gun

T

tahunua001

New member
hello all,
so long story short, I rushed out to a local going out of business sale and bought a mossberg mvp even though every shred of sense in my body screamed junk. well the thing is a pile of poopy. to say I'm not happy would be a major understatement.

even though the MVP is far from what I hoped for, it does have a lot of features that I like in a bolt gun, it's 223 so I've got plenty of ammo for it, it takes AR15 mags so I've got plenty of spares, and it shoots well enough. so now I am on the search for a better, more reliable alternative to the MVP for about the same price point($500 or less).

even though the MVP is the only one I know of from the factory that takes ar mags, I think I can settle for just about any detachable magazine model. right now there are two rifles that I am looking at the Howa 1500, and the Ruger american. between the two I'm having a hard time deciding.

The american is lighter than the howa but the howa has a nicer stock.

The Howa has a higher ammo capacity but the Ruger has a flush fitting mag(more attractive for me for hunting purposes)

the Howa has a much smoother action but the American has the better trigger.

both are within $20 of each other but the american is stainless and I prefer blued(plus I'm sure the blued models are cheaper)

the original intention was to get some spare mags so that I could pack multiple mags in the field for different applications but the Howa Mags are $40 each and I have yet to find spare American mags in the 223 action.

so there is my dilemma so I would appreciate some first hand experience with either or both rifles, or if there is any other suggestion for a 223, detachable mag bolt action in that price range I am all ears.

EDIT: lets try to ignore the 223 for hunting arguments, please.
 
I have the Howa 1500 mini action. Very happy with it. It is a purpose built .223 with an extra short action. Shoots very well and I like the trigger. I would recommend it.
 
I have a 1500 in .223 without a detachable mag. It is extremely accurate and a lot of fun to shoot. I have some other guns built on the Howa action and they are also great shooters. My 1500 was in a higher price range but I would be surprised if you are not happy with one.
 
What's so bad about the MVP that you can't throw just a little bit of money at it to make it work, rather than throw an even larger chunk of change at a new rifle?



Alternatively and almost off-topic...
I'm working on a Marlin XS7 conversion that will allow .223 XS7s to accept slightly-modified AR mags with easily-adaptable 3D-printed parts. I'm working out the details and feel very close to the finish line ...but hunting season is approaching and I have many other projects that are higher priority. So no more progress is likely to be made until at least January (likely later).
 
I have always tried to shy away from basic low priced entry level guns as I have seen too many disappointing firearms over the years. A friend had just bought a Ruger American in 6.5 Creedmore and handed it to me at my range to try out. Long story short, I ended up with that rifle and absolutely love how it shoots. My only modification was removing the trigger bar/safety as those things sort of bother me. It was shooting 1/4 inch with factory ammo and continues to do so with a load I worked up for it.
I don't care much for the plastic mag in the Ruger, but it does work as it should.
 
I've had an American Compact with the 18" barrel since they came out. I did order a full size stock for it from Ruger and it fits me well now. The factory magazine had issues, but Ruger sent me a new one. It and the 3 spares I've since bought work perfectly. Since mine was an early production rifle the stock was flimsey, but I gave it a very generous free float and it shot well. I'm keeping that stock for the grandkids to use. The full length stock is new production and has been redesigned to be much stiffer. It needed nothing to shoot well.

My brother had one of the Howa's for a few months. The magazine kept falling out at odd times when he was shooting or even carrying it. He sold it and bought one of the Ruger Ranch rifles with 16" barrel and is much happier.
 
I have no experience with the MVP,

But I have to agree with Old Story.

I was thinking of finding a lighter hunting rifle then wife's RPR, in 6.5CM and decided to give the Ruger American Predator a look see.

I was quite impressed and will be using it on Antelope this fall.

The mags only hold 4 rounds but that's plenty for a hunting rifle. It came with one mag and was able to find another at a Local Gun Store. You can order them from Ruger also. But I figure if I need that many rounds extra magazines aren't going to help me as I have other more serious problems.

I shoot precision rifle matches with a Model 70 Winchester that only holds 5 rounds, never lost any points because of mag capacity.
 
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What's so bad about the MVP that you can't throw just a little bit of money at it to make it work, rather than throw an even larger chunk of change at a new rifle?
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it suffers from a complete lack of reliability when feeding. so far I have tried 5 different magazines of varying shapes, capacities, and brands and not one of them feeds reliably. the bolt is sloppy, and the stock has a lot of issues that the demo model didn't. I have am not a gun smith nor do I have patience for something that does not perform as advertized from the factory without me having to throw more money at the problem. I would much rather deal with the aggravation of selling the rifle for a loss and purchasing a different one that works as intended.
 
"...bought a Mossberg MVP even though..." Which one? What did you expect out of it? A new one, even at close out pricing, still has a warrantee. Contact Mossberg's Customer Service.
http://www.mossberg.com/contact-us/
Why are you not hunting with your AR? Just curious.
The .223 for hunting arguments are usually only about using it for deer with the wrong bullet.
 
" Which one? What did you expect out of it? A new one, even at close out pricing, still has a warrantee. Contact Mossberg's Customer Service.
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I expected a rifle that could actually chamber a round every now and then. I have tried contacting mossberg, they recommend using different mags and are letting their engineers know there is a problem... basically it was like getting an email back from cave johnson.

Why are you not hunting with your AR? Just curious.
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I'm in the process of selling it. it's not accurate, looking to upgrade down the line.
 
I'll also recommend a Tikka. Mine is a T3 Lite Stainless. Great rifle. I had heard all sorts of chatter about how good they were, so I bought one (2 or 3 seasons ago). That was a good decision.
 
it suffers from a complete lack of reliability when feeding. so far I have tried 5 different magazines of varying shapes, capacities, and brands and not one of them feeds reliably. the bolt is sloppy, and the stock has a lot of issues that the demo model didn't. I have am not a gun smith nor do I have patience for something that does not perform as advertized from the factory without me having to throw more money at the problem. I would much rather deal with the aggravation of selling the rifle for a loss and purchasing a different one that works as intended.
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That's a good answer.



I think I'd be leaning toward the Ruger...
 
Given your criteria, I think the Ruger American is the way to go. I digest quite a bit of information on the net, and the American gets high praise. In my mind Made in the USA counts.
 
I have little experience with the 223 caliber MVPs, but I have one in 308.

I agree that the action is a bit rough, but other than that I have had few complaints. It is very accurate and it feeds flawlessly from both 10 and 20 round mags. I didn't like the size of the laminate forend, so I planed it down and refinished it to a slimmer contour.

I don't like their plastic stocks as a rule because you get what they sell, and you can't modify them much, but the wood laminates are just fine. I pulled the barrel and threaded it so I could install a flash hider. The 16" barrel is short enough that it threw a large fireball, so I solved that with the flash hider. If Mossberg was to thread all their barrel on the MVPs it would help them to sell more I am sure.

One change I would ask for is a safety that locks the bolt down. 2 times I have had the bolt open on my while I was carrying it. I would hope it is not too much to ask for Mossberg to place a spring steel tab on their safety lever that would engage a slot in the bolt handle when fully locked. That's not a big feat of engineering.
 
In my mind Made in the USA counts.
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Yea I used to feel that way and I still want to, but if I can buy a better product for same or less money.....well I am going to do it. I had a Toyota Tundra that had 350,000+ miles on it and it still ran good when I sold it. My Ford F150 motor blew at 100,000 My current truck is a Chevy Silverado its got about 150,000 miles on it and I have had to put alot into it to get it there and I will be thankful if it makes it another 50,000.....................point of my story damn I miss my Toyota.....:)
 
It cost more to do it this way but if I really wanted a .223 rifle to run a detachable magazine I'd buy a Remington 700 and install PT&G bottom metal. It blows your budget of $500 but you get a better product IMO, with a lot of aftermarket parts support. While your magazine choices will be limited to steel magazines you still get AR-15 compatibility.

I can pick up a brand new M700 ADL package at Walmart for $375 + tax, a used stock of EBay would run less than $100, PT&G bottom metal $129-150, and machining of the action would be about another $100. At around $750 +/-. It sure beats all the other options that use a chassis system or bottom metal with ACIS style or others like the Ruger Gunsite. I like the Ruger American Predator and Ranch rifles in .223 for the barrel twist rates, but I'm not fond of the magazine release and its location.
 
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