Recommend some .38 Special ammo?

JM, I still see no problem with 135gr SB... NYPD is more than happy with it. Gelitan simulates muscle tissue, and the only shot a block of it replicates on an actual human would be a side shot though both cheeks of the buttocks. I have seen the insides of humans... Gelitan best shows how bullets act upon gelitan, actual results very greatly from that.
The FBI minimum standard we have had rammed down our throats since the Miami shootout where bad tactics and mistakes were swept away in using 9mm silvertip as a scapegoat, has gave up several bullet designs in the past that wait too late to expand in a normal center of mass shot on a human. Wonderful for those times when you need to shoot sombody that is bending over in the butt, and have it make it the lenth of the torso/
Exit the collarbone area etc.
( might as well use FMJ)
 
For self-defense ammo, probably your two best choices are either Speer's 135grn SBGD or one of the 158grn LSWCHP +P "FBI Loads" from Winchester, Remington, Federal, or Buffalo Bore. I started out using the Speer in my M36, but I've since switched to the 158grn "FBI Loads" because the Speers shoot rather low from my revolver's fixed sights. Among the FBI loadings, the Remington has the best reputation becuase it uses softer, more readily expandign lead than the Winchester and is a bit warmer than the Federal (I have no experience with BB so I can't comment on it). Unfortunately, the Remington version also seems to be the most expensive (it seems to run $35/50 rounds lately). I happened to find one box recently for $20 so I now carry that. If I couldn't get the Remington version, I'd carry the Federal because SG ammo currently has it for $17/50 rounds.

http://www.sgammo.com

As far as practice ammo, I've found that just about any 158grn LRN, FMJ, or SWC will shoot to about the same POI as the FBI loads. I've also found that WWB 130grn FMJ seems to shoot to about the same POI as the 135grn Speer SBGD, at least from my revolver. Honestly though, I don't buy much factory .38 Special ammo anymore as I can handload it much cheaper (I already handload .357 Magnum and I can use the same dies, bullets and primers).
 
I have an 85 and a Smith j-frame; I try to get Winchester white box when I can for the range, and use standard pressure Hornady Critical Defense rounds for SD in both guns and in all others I carry or use at home for SD ... started using them to ease feeding in my semi-autos, went with them in revolvers as well because they are reliable, very accurate for me and all tests I've read indicate they expand well ...

Incidently, those who recommend 158gr +ps must have incredible hand strength ... I tried a box with my j-frame, fired two and put the rest aside to shoot out of my 686+ ... a lightweight snubbie is not a gun I would depend on with that ammo, tho others I know will disagree .. the recoil is amazingly strong, so strong that my hand hurt for three days afterwards ...
 
bikerbill said:
Incidentally, those who recommend 158gr +ps must have incredible hand strength ... I tried a box with my j-frame, fired two and put the rest aside to shoot out of my 686+
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bikerbill, these are my carry round. I am just middle height and strength and 70 years old and I can shoot these with no problem in my Smith 36 snub. Of course it makes it easier if you are in a shooting situation with adrenaline flowing in a SD situation.

Now full-house .357 mag's in a Ruger SP 101...now that's a little harsh.:D
 
How about listing just one agency that still issues or approves the .38 as a duty weapon, that approves the 148 grain wad cutter (either type) as approved ammo for carry.

Ive shot a couple of critters over the years with .38 wadcutters, both solid and hollow based, and with the hollow base inverted, and none were very impressive.

I think if anything, if you prefer a lead bullet, a LSWC or LSWC/HP would be more appropriate.
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It wasn't that long ago (in my opinion) that lots of police officers carried their snubbies with 148gr (soft) swaged lead wadcutters. Mild recoil, fast follow-up shots and accurate since it was the same as their practice ammo. Lots of felons went down to it. The administrative response to a litigious society requires agencies regulate almost every aspect of arms and ammo, including minimums. Often the LWC doesn't meet those minimums.

Animals are not people and do not anticipate the effects of being shot. They react only to the immediate pain of the bullet wound without the realization that it may be fatal or debilitating.

Cast wadcutters penetrate deeper and fracture bones while the softer wadcutters tend to deform (bend, expand) when they hit bone. This means a curved path and/or a tumbling bullet.

LSWC ammo, HP or not, when cast will have low expansion rates and failures to expand. The soft swaged ammo has a better reputation for expansion but far from 100% at lower speeds.

For years, my favoite was a 146gr LSWC-HP handloaded to 925-950 fps with either Unique or Red Dot powder. Fiochhi makes a 148gr SJHP 38 Special that's good for practice or self-defense.
 
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Incidently, those who recommend 158gr +ps must have incredible hand strength ... I tried a box with my j-frame, fired two and put the rest aside to shoot out of my 686+ ... a lightweight snubbie is not a gun I would depend on with that ammo, tho others I know will disagree .. the recoil is amazingly strong, so strong that my hand hurt for three days afterwards ...
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What model J-Frame do you have? I shot 50 rounds of Federal 158grn SWCHP +P out of my M36 yesterday and while they were getting somewhat tiresome by the end of the box, they weren't unmanageable. My J-Frame, however, has a steel frame. If you're using a J-Frame with a lightweight frame, I can see how the 158 +P might be a bit more snappy.
 
Favorite loads for my Airweight

I carry a S&W 442. I tend to practice with 130 grain hardball from either American Eagle (Federal) or Winchester's White Box. Call me a whimp, but +Ps in an airweight snub is a bit stout to practice so I'll pick up a couple boxes of the Federal Nyclads to use for defense...typically shot 5 to 10 rounds of those at the end of my range session. Good luck!
 
Big fan of the 129gr Nyclad load for SD. The 130gr fmj practice ammo shoots to the same POA so I just use whatever is cheapest.
 
Hey guys,
thanks for all the great responses. I'm going to try several different brands and styles before I stock up. Per some of your recommendations, I tried some Magtech 158gr that I had sitting around. It was LRN, and yeah, the gun got way dirty. I have a bigger problem, though.

First time shooting this thing and it is not very reliable. The first few rounds of 5 bullets went through fine, but after a while I started having problems. Looking at a misfired bullet, there was no mark on the back of the casing, so I think the cylinder is not rotating enough, and the hammer is striking the back of the cylinder rather than the back of the bullet. Big time bummer, so I'm taking it back to the shop. I bought it used from a great family-owned place, so hopefully they'll take care of me. They said they would guarantee it for 90 days, and I'm going to hold them to it. :mad:
 
Remington 125 grains sjhp .38+p or remington 158 grain LHP .38+p. In either yellow and green box or white in green box ( cheaper because its brass cartridge rather than nickel in the former). This is what I use do to reliability and affordability. Very common to. Edited to also mention these are available in 50, 100 and if I recall 200 round value packs. Not more expensive than quality range ammo and with self defense hollowpointe bullet designs. I believe in practicing with the ammo you carry. I can't and wouldn't purchase those over priced 25 round premium ammo boxes. Buy in bulk and practice in bulk.
 
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Winchester White Box, .38 Special FMJ will shoot arrow straight at the range... also, I don't see the need for expensive hollow points etc. for HD. .38's aren't going to tickle a BG even if it is "range ammo".
 
kinetic energy = mass * velocity^2

all things equal- the lighter the bullet, the greater the velocity

velocity is the more important factor in this equation

handgun owners should be little concerned with crosswinds, therefore all things the same lighter bullets for handguns are superior

Fiocchi .38 special + p xtp-b 110gr. is the superior .38 special personal defence round @ ~$24/50rds

if one looks at some typical Fiocchi ballistics charts, Fiocchi in general makes some pretty hot rounds, so 110gr. + p is in fact quite hot

seems like they got their powder just right as well because firing interchangeably with the .38 special Remington Home Defense + p 125gr. produced identical recoil. The Remington 125gr. is a hot round, so the 110gr. Fiocchi kicking the same talks even more to the added velocity. . . .

Umerican ammo companies (especially their marketing departments) may not like me saying so, but me thinks they are planning >= 10yrs down the road with this year's current round. . . while Fiocchi is just quietly making the best round possible and putting them out there at great prices as well

i have found the Fiocchi .38 special fnfmj 125gr. (green round) to be the best for practice @ an affordable ~$17/50 (also available in 500 or 1000). Fiocchi claims a cleaner burn and increased barrel life for this particular practice round

Fiocchi's website is down right now, but check 'em out at www.ammunitiontogo.com

i have no affiliation with any of the companies listed above.
 
velocity is the more important factor in this equation
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No, actually it's not. Placement and penetration in that order override velocity and kinetic energy. A bullet with lots of kinetic energy does little good if it is too poorly placed or too shallow penetrating to hit vital organs.

Fiocchi .38 special + p xtp-b 110gr. is the superior .38 special personal defence round @ ~$24/50rds

if one looks at some typical Fiocchi ballistics charts, Fiocchi in general makes some pretty hot rounds, so 110gr. + p is in fact quite hot
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There's too problems here. Number one is that 110grn .38 Special loadings do not, historically, have a particularly good reputation for penetration. It is for this reason that most more modern JHP's in that caliber use 125-158grn bullets.

Also, Hornady XTP's don't have a very good reputation for expansion unless driven at velocities well beyond what the .38 Special is normally capable of producing, particularly from a short barrel. I personally wouldn't trust a .357" XTP to reliably expand unless it was going at least 1100-1200fps (I'm not sure how fast Fiocchi runs them because I don't have their ballistic charts handy at the moment).

EDIT: I just checked Midway's site, and that Fiocchi loading is listed at 1000fps though the barrel length is not listed (I suspect that velocity is from at least a 4" barrel).
 
ang4me: Get the cheapest stuff Walmart has to sell you. Put your earmuffs on to block the sound of discussion and advice. Point the gun at something and don't stop shooting 'till you hit it.
 
MashieNiblick said:
kinetic energy = mass * velocity^2

all things equal- the lighter the bullet, the greater the velocity

velocity is the more important factor in this equation

handgun owners should be little concerned with crosswinds, therefore all things the same lighter bullets for handguns are superior

Fiocchi .38 special + p xtp-b 110gr. is the superior .38 special personal defence round @ ~$24/50rds
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I'll disagree at this point. As Webleymkv commented, the 110 grain bullets have a poor reputation for penetration. Penetration is just "adequate" when 110's are used in the .357 Magnum. Myself, I prefer 130-148 grain bullets in .38 +P when they're available.

if one looks at some typical Fiocchi ballistics charts, Fiocchi in general makes some pretty hot rounds, so 110gr. + p is in fact quite hot

seems like they got their powder just right as well because firing interchangeably with the .38 special Remington Home Defense + p 125gr. produced identical recoil. The Remington 125gr. is a hot round, so the 110gr. Fiocchi kicking the same talks even more to the added velocity. . . .
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Most of Fiocchi's "Dynamics" line uses older-generation JHP's and seems to be loaded to the same specs as some of my older ammo - circa 1976. That's when +P 125gr ammo was anything over 950-1000 fps.

Umerican ammo companies (especially their marketing departments) may not like me saying so, but me thinks they are planning >= 10yrs down the road with this year's current round. . . while Fiocchi is just quietly making the best round possible and putting them out there at great prices as well.

i have found the Fiocchi .38 special fnfmj 125gr. (green round) to be the best for practice @ an affordable ~$17/50 (also available in 500 or 1000). Fiocchi claims a cleaner burn and increased barrel life for this particular practice round

Fiocchi's website is down right now, but check 'em out at www.ammunitiontogo.com

i have no affiliation with any of the companies listed above.
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The Hornady XTP bullet is, by Hornady's admission, designed to work on soft targets and thus does not do very well against auto-bodies or automotive glass (failure to penetrate). If that's not part of your needs then you'll be okay with the XTP (presuming the BG doesn't have a Zippo in his chest pocket).

I do have a considerable amount of Fiocchi .38 & .357 ammo because it is inexpensive and similar in perceived power to the older ("hotter") ammo we used in the 70's. And it's less expensive than buying most other brands of "obsolete" JHP designs (e.g Winchester/USA) with, IMO, more power. I particularly like their 148gr .357 Magnum FMJ with the conical bullet. It slices through car doors quite well.
 
Dayum! Lots of opinons here.

Let me recommend, as others have, the 158 grain LSWCHP (the flying ashtray) as used by the FBI and many, many police departments for several decades.

I doubt there's a more effective .38 round than this one.

LSWCHP = Lead Semi Wad Cutter Hollow Point ... a mean, nasty, ugly thing capable of inflicting great damage.
 
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