I have a pushfeed model 70 that needs a new barrel. It was a graduation gift from my father years ago. I believe the barrel is pitted, I will have a gunsmith look at it with a boar scope to make sure. If it needs a new barrel I was thinking of going with a Douglas XX. For the simple fact that they are affordable. It is chambered in 270win now but I am open to other calibers. I would be using it for long range target shooting (300-600yds) and deer hunting. Maybe the occasional elk hunt. What are your thoughts on Douglas barrels? And who should do the rebarrel?
Rebarrel question
- Thread starter okie24
- Start date
Any decent gunsmith can do a rebarrel. As to affordability, there is a cheaper option than Douglas - that being a factory winchester "take-off" barrel. Some good take-off barrels literally have no rounds down them since leaving the factory - the rifles were used for "donor actions". Lots for sale on Gunbroker and Ebay. Since your rifle is a long-action, there are tons of caliber choices available to you (both long and short action) - pretty much anything that uses a .473 bolt face (as small as a .220 Swift or as large as a .35 Whelen).
Gunplummer
New member
Pitting can mean nothing. Some of the best shooters I ever owned had dark bores and pitting. What does it shoot like?
It has been a long time since I bought a Douglas bbl.
Opinions vary,but I have to say of the few I have used,I was not disappointed.Mine shot good.
I believe you can have Douglas install the bbl.Check their site.
Their "rough turned" is pretty rough..."finish turned and polished" would be my choice.
Opinions vary,but I have to say of the few I have used,I was not disappointed.Mine shot good.
I believe you can have Douglas install the bbl.Check their site.
Their "rough turned" is pretty rough..."finish turned and polished" would be my choice.
Some barrels that look pitted are really just dirty.
The .270 is really .277" grooves in the barrel.
The bristles on the bronze brush should measure more than .280" across to clean well.
I bought a rifle from an on line auction that was full of Copper in the bore. It took all day to get it out, but now it is a 0.5" rifle.
270 is about as good as it gets for deer hunting.
The .270 is really .277" grooves in the barrel.
The bristles on the bronze brush should measure more than .280" across to clean well.
I bought a rifle from an on line auction that was full of Copper in the bore. It took all day to get it out, but now it is a 0.5" rifle.
270 is about as good as it gets for deer hunting.
g.willikers
New member
Another vote for trying it out at the range before deciding if it actually needs a new barrel.
Years ago, I traded for an old rifle with a pitted bore.
It was cheap due to the obvious flaw.
And it turned out to shoot great, in spite of the pitting.
Apparently, a less than perfect looking bore doesn't always doom the barrel.
Years ago, I traded for an old rifle with a pitted bore.
It was cheap due to the obvious flaw.
And it turned out to shoot great, in spite of the pitting.
Apparently, a less than perfect looking bore doesn't always doom the barrel.
Just got back from the gunsmith. He said the gun has been shot a lot. there is pitting in the barrel not just where the rifling starts. I also had him check the headspace he said that there was a lot of space. Told me it was borderline unsafe to shoot. Looks like this rebarrel is going to happen.
"Just got back from the gunsmith. He said the gun has been shot a lot. there is pitting in the barrel not just where the rifling starts. I also had him check the headspace he said that there was a lot of space. Told me it was borderline unsafe to shoot. Looks like this rebarrel is going to happen."
First thing I would do is find another gunsmith and get a second opinion.
In fact, even before that I'd get a good copper remover and scrub the holy living bejabbers out of that rifle before taking it in for that opinion.
To answer you question about Douglas barrels, I have had my gunsmith build me four fairly expensive custom rifles and all four have Douglas barrels.
If I understood your original post, you are technically the first owner of a rifle presented to you upon graduation that I have to assume was new when you got it. I can understand barrel pitting and bore erosion but if it's your rifle and you're and maybe your dad are the only ones that used it, where's the excess headspace coming from? I strong suggest that second opinion. Could be gusmith #1's business is slow and a barrel job will help pay the bills even if you really don't need one.
Now if te rifle was one purchased second hand, that would be a different story. Guess the devil would be in the details. Just the suspicious nature of a grumpy old man.
Paul B.
First thing I would do is find another gunsmith and get a second opinion.
In fact, even before that I'd get a good copper remover and scrub the holy living bejabbers out of that rifle before taking it in for that opinion.
To answer you question about Douglas barrels, I have had my gunsmith build me four fairly expensive custom rifles and all four have Douglas barrels.
If I understood your original post, you are technically the first owner of a rifle presented to you upon graduation that I have to assume was new when you got it. I can understand barrel pitting and bore erosion but if it's your rifle and you're and maybe your dad are the only ones that used it, where's the excess headspace coming from? I strong suggest that second opinion. Could be gusmith #1's business is slow and a barrel job will help pay the bills even if you really don't need one.
Now if te rifle was one purchased second hand, that would be a different story. Guess the devil would be in the details. Just the suspicious nature of a grumpy old man.
Paul B.
The action might be fine.
Might not.
Excessive headspace is most often (yeah, I know barrel/leade wear does it too...) caused by lug wear.
I would have the smith examine the lugs and their raceways for excessive wear, as well as lug contact.
Could it be "brought back to life"? Probably, but it'll cost more than it's worth if that's the case....and should it be, it wouldn't be on my short list as a viable action for a precision build.
I think you'll enjoy this article on .30-06 vs .308.
The main reasons for choosing the .308 Winchester are a shorter action for faster bolt operation in rapid fire, compatibility with the 7.62 NATO surplus ammo that used to be plentiful, a weight advantage in terms of the number of rounds per pound when having to carry a quantity of ammunition is an issue, a little less recoil and muzzle flash, and, for handloaders, about 10% less powder consumption in maximum loads. Also, a bigger selection of commercial match ammunition is available in .308 Winchester, should you need to fall back on that. The shorter action lengths common for .308 rifles are also be a little more rigid in comparable weight designs, which theoretically makes it a little easier to get effective accuracy work done on the rifle. But good rifle smithing pretty much neutralizes the significance of that, as you might imagine from the fact there are excellent magnum match guns available.
Pluses for the venerable .30-06 include more powder capacity for long range loads, getting around 5% more velocity when loaded to .308 pressures (which strong modern actions (and even most older actions) have no problem with). That extra velocity can really help stay supersonic at 1000 yards and a little further out. The ability to get longer, heavier 200 grain+ bullets up to reasonable speeds with slower powders than .308 can work well with.
The main reasons for choosing the .308 Winchester are a shorter action for faster bolt operation in rapid fire, compatibility with the 7.62 NATO surplus ammo that used to be plentiful, a weight advantage in terms of the number of rounds per pound when having to carry a quantity of ammunition is an issue, a little less recoil and muzzle flash, and, for handloaders, about 10% less powder consumption in maximum loads. Also, a bigger selection of commercial match ammunition is available in .308 Winchester, should you need to fall back on that. The shorter action lengths common for .308 rifles are also be a little more rigid in comparable weight designs, which theoretically makes it a little easier to get effective accuracy work done on the rifle. But good rifle smithing pretty much neutralizes the significance of that, as you might imagine from the fact there are excellent magnum match guns available.
Pluses for the venerable .30-06 include more powder capacity for long range loads, getting around 5% more velocity when loaded to .308 pressures (which strong modern actions (and even most older actions) have no problem with). That extra velocity can really help stay supersonic at 1000 yards and a little further out. The ability to get longer, heavier 200 grain+ bullets up to reasonable speeds with slower powders than .308 can work well with.
The 308 and 30-06 are so close in accuracy that I would never know the difference, but at the national level competition at Camp Perry, Bart Bobbitt witnessed the 30-06 get put out of buisness more than 50 years ago.
Bart Bobbit
10/22/94
One other thing that lets the .308 be more accurate is case quality.
In its heyday, the '06 was often loaded for highpower competition
with military match cases. Those cases were not very uniform in
body wall thickness; a known cause of inaccuracy with any cartridge.
The best, most uniform '06 cases were those made by Western Cartridge
Company for the US armed services teams and packaged in white boxes.
But even those were not as good as what the same firm made in 1958
and 1960 for international competition. Even commercial cases from
Winchester, Federal and Remington were/are more uniform in .308 as
compared to the .30-06 cases as far as body wall thickness matters.
BB
Bart Bobbit
10/22/94
One other thing that lets the .308 be more accurate is case quality.
In its heyday, the '06 was often loaded for highpower competition
with military match cases. Those cases were not very uniform in
body wall thickness; a known cause of inaccuracy with any cartridge.
The best, most uniform '06 cases were those made by Western Cartridge
Company for the US armed services teams and packaged in white boxes.
But even those were not as good as what the same firm made in 1958
and 1960 for international competition. Even commercial cases from
Winchester, Federal and Remington were/are more uniform in .308 as
compared to the .30-06 cases as far as body wall thickness matters.
BB
As has been said before, clean it good and shoot before you sell it.
Here's my story on that subject:
Years ago, my wife's uncle sold me one of his benchrest guns. This is a custom rifle, built on a Sako single shot long action, 30" Hart barrel, 1-14 twist. It's in a McMillan stock, with a Canjar single-set trigger, chambered in .220 Swift.
I shot it a bit--wasn't too happy with the results. I could not get it to shoot a group of less than one inch at even 50 yards. I was disappointed. Inspection of the rifle showed black and dirty for the first two inches of rifling. So, I thought the same as the OP--I was going to send the rifle to Hart, have them cut to a 26" finished length and recrown the barrel.
Then my wife got an Outer's Foul-Out for me.
Operation is simple--clamp the rifle upright and place a steel rod (very skinny) down the bore. It has washers on it to center it. Now, plug the chamber and fill the bore with solution. Slide the control unit onto the rod, and put a metal clamp that is wired to the control unit on another metal part of the rifle.
It is a reverse electroplater--it attracts deposits from the walls of the bore to the rod.
I let it run for a full hour. I then disconnected it, and poured out the solution--it looked clear. I sighed, and then started a jag with patch to dry it out.
The jag went in--and stopped cold. I was confused--I had used the same rod and jag combination many times. Thus, I decided to give the rod a couple of taps to help it along. After two taps with a rubber hammer, I heard a loud "CRACK", and then the jag moved freely.
Out came a solid SLEEVE of rock hard carbon, liberally shot through with copper streaks!
The next time I took it to the range, it shot a 5 round group of less than 1/2 inch, from the bench at 100 yards.
So, give it a good cleaning first. If you can, take a Foul Out to it.
And if you want to re-barrel it, send the whole action to Douglas, and spec a 4X Premium barrel, in the caliber you want.
Here's my story on that subject:
Years ago, my wife's uncle sold me one of his benchrest guns. This is a custom rifle, built on a Sako single shot long action, 30" Hart barrel, 1-14 twist. It's in a McMillan stock, with a Canjar single-set trigger, chambered in .220 Swift.
I shot it a bit--wasn't too happy with the results. I could not get it to shoot a group of less than one inch at even 50 yards. I was disappointed. Inspection of the rifle showed black and dirty for the first two inches of rifling. So, I thought the same as the OP--I was going to send the rifle to Hart, have them cut to a 26" finished length and recrown the barrel.
Then my wife got an Outer's Foul-Out for me.
Operation is simple--clamp the rifle upright and place a steel rod (very skinny) down the bore. It has washers on it to center it. Now, plug the chamber and fill the bore with solution. Slide the control unit onto the rod, and put a metal clamp that is wired to the control unit on another metal part of the rifle.
It is a reverse electroplater--it attracts deposits from the walls of the bore to the rod.
I let it run for a full hour. I then disconnected it, and poured out the solution--it looked clear. I sighed, and then started a jag with patch to dry it out.
The jag went in--and stopped cold. I was confused--I had used the same rod and jag combination many times. Thus, I decided to give the rod a couple of taps to help it along. After two taps with a rubber hammer, I heard a loud "CRACK", and then the jag moved freely.
Out came a solid SLEEVE of rock hard carbon, liberally shot through with copper streaks!
The next time I took it to the range, it shot a 5 round group of less than 1/2 inch, from the bench at 100 yards.
So, give it a good cleaning first. If you can, take a Foul Out to it.
And if you want to re-barrel it, send the whole action to Douglas, and spec a 4X Premium barrel, in the caliber you want.