I will offer the counterpoint of "adrenaline pumping fine motor skills hindered" better to draw slower to avoid mistakes. Seriously you think extra .5 seconds will cost a life in SD situations? Id say in maybe 00.1% of cases. Obviously i cant prove you wrong nor can you prove me wrong. Just my opinion. People arent often out to blatantly kill you like in war, you may have a gun pointed at you, but im pretty sure you wont be trying to fast draw on that.
Rear Waist Carry
- Thread starter WebHead24-7
- Start date
Go to war and get back to me
War and self defense from concealed carry aren't the same thing.
I wouldn't take a defensive pistol course, or a series of them, and think I know about war. The reality is the percentage of US soldiers or marines using pistols is extremely small. The percentage that carry them concealed and do solitary missions is even smaller. Being on your own potentially attacked from multiple aggressors with no immediate support and threats coming from potentially any angle or at extremely close distances where you may not know the individuals intentions until they attack can be quite different than combat (although the counterinsurgency battlefield often has threats from any direction and suicide attacks at close ranges).
I thank you for your service, but I've trained next to ex-military and active police. Just being from the military is not carte blanche. Travis Haley has spoken on that and what he has learned after leaving the military.
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I typically carry at about 4:00-5:00 - basically above my right rear pocket. I just use a regular iwb holster, but with a slightly more pronounced cant. I think 15*.
Drawing is basically the same movement as reaching for your wallet, so it feels pretty natural, and doesn't seem all that much slower than 3:00.
There's a natural pocket of shirt there that does a pretty great job of hiding a gun. I carry a glock 19, which isn't exactly tiny, and unless I bend over so far that my shirt rides up over the handle it stays pretty well concealed.
An added benefit is that my butt is a bit more padded than my hip, so the gun seems to poke me less when I'm moving around.
Drawing is basically the same movement as reaching for your wallet, so it feels pretty natural, and doesn't seem all that much slower than 3:00.
There's a natural pocket of shirt there that does a pretty great job of hiding a gun. I carry a glock 19, which isn't exactly tiny, and unless I bend over so far that my shirt rides up over the handle it stays pretty well concealed.
An added benefit is that my butt is a bit more padded than my hip, so the gun seems to poke me less when I'm moving around.
I'm 6'1" and 230#, so roughly the same body shape as Cyanide971's pics in post #9, but a good bit bigger in front. I carry in the same position but have found OWB to be much more comfortable and just as easily concealable. I can carry my P228 with a dark color XL size Carhartt t-shirt or polo, and my Shield conceals even easier. I forget that I even have my P32 with me sometimes.
WebHead24-7
Inactive
Just had a cc class that made me a bit less worried about it showing or printing. Basically, if it's in NY, if it's seen accidentally, it's OK. Printing isn't an issue either unless it's REALLY OVERLY obvious, which is cool, cause I could pull off a large but not an XL. I'm gonna try a side holster first, just to see. Just don't know if I want in or out of waist and where to get it. Seems that the more "holster" as in width, the more stable and secure it is.
OldMarksman
Staff
Posted by Moomooboo:
So, to me, that one-half second delay seems very important indeed.
How much warning do you expect to have in the event of an attack by a violent criminal actor?
Well, at an approaching spread of five meters per second, an attacker would move two and and one half meters in that time interval, or about eight and a quarter feet. Consider the following:
- that's a pretty substantial distance when one is defending against an attack by someone with a contact weapon;
- one should not be starting to draw without an articulable reason to believe that the generally accpeted conditions for ability, opportunity, and jeopardy exist, and that one has no other alternative to deadly force;
- you will still have to stop and avoid the attacker, and he will most likely not be stopped instantly upon being hit; and
- this all may occur in rather close quarters.
So, to me, that one-half second delay seems very important indeed.
Yes because that is when you wouldve identified them at that close of range : / youre taking statistics verbatim and not applying actual situations.
Faster is better: get your Google Fu on and look up Tueller Drill. Try it.
As for this:
.... thanks for your service, and your welcome for mine..... but defensive pistolcraft as it pertains to CCW has even less to do with modern warfare than the biathlon does with hunting ...... they may both be cats but they are totally different cats.
OldMarksman
Staff
???
webhead24-7 said:
I get mine from http://www.michaelkole.com. His holsters are OWB but you can get belt loops that allow IWB, and he also has committed IWB holsters. They ride a little high and canted forward, so the butt hugs your side and conceals easily. Like I said I can carry my P228 OWB at 3 o'clock under an XL t-shirt.
I liked my first MK for my Shield so much that I bought one for my P32, P228 and cell phone as well. And a belt to match.
sigarms228
New member
Glad to hear that!
Same hear in Illinois where the law defines a concealed carry pistol as being "mostly concealed".
You will also realize than pretty much no one is paying attention to you unless it is so obvious. We live in good times for CCW. Most people walk around absorbed in their iCrap devices anyhow. People carry all kinds of stuff under their shirts - phones, tablets, tools. medical devices, power packs, books, magazines/newspapers, scrap lumber, and whatever.
No one is going to give a second thought to that slight bulge that might be made by a butt of a pistol grip on occasion. It is also smart to not do anything to draw attention to yourself like how some idiots like to get loud and act stupid.
I CCW mostly my Walther PPQ in a Raven Concealment Phanton kydex holster OWB and using a Beltman belt. Yeah I have close to $200 invested in my carry system but I love it and to me it was WELL worth the investment. I recently got some IWB loops for my RCS Phantom holster and it is suprisingly comfortable IWB also - at least for me. I just need a heavy shirt pulled over my Levis and all is good.
Hols my pistol nice and close to my side.
Moomooboo. I agree that speed is key while being accurate at the sametime. Who says you can't have both? The thing is in war, now I can't say this first cause I've never been in war but I'm pretty sure you know who the enemy is. In a self defense situation you can't just draw and shoot someone that walks up to you funny. You have to wait until you know that person poses a threat hense where speed comes in.
Dragline45
New member
Like jimbo86 said, warfare and CCW are two different animals. As far as going to war, thank you for your service, but some of the more firearm ignorant and just not so great shooters I have shot with have been military vet's and LEO's. Not saying you are either, but being a vet doesn't necessarily make you qualified in all things firearm related. As my buddy in the Marines told me when I talked to him about this, "they call it basic training for a reason".
When it comes to holsters and different ways to conceal carry, everyone has a box of holsters. Mine is labeled, "What the hell was I thinking?"
I now carry one holster and one gun 99.9% of the time. I train with that combination and it is what is comfortable FOR ME. The other .1% of the time I am forced, because of what I am wearing, to have either a shoulder holster or a belly bag. Neither one is that comfortable and I feel out of my element.
Like others have mentioned, I tried the SOB method and find that I did not like it for primary carry but do use it from time to time for back-up carry when I work certain jobs.
I now carry one holster and one gun 99.9% of the time. I train with that combination and it is what is comfortable FOR ME. The other .1% of the time I am forced, because of what I am wearing, to have either a shoulder holster or a belly bag. Neither one is that comfortable and I feel out of my element.
Like others have mentioned, I tried the SOB method and find that I did not like it for primary carry but do use it from time to time for back-up carry when I work certain jobs.
The only problem with the small of the back carry is sitting in your car, or in a chair while doing so. It is uncomfortable especially with a service pistol. They do make special holsters if that's your thing. I carry just behind my strong side hip using either a Fist, Kramer, Del Fatti, or Nightingale IWB holster. All of which have a 15-20 degree forward cant. I can easily conceal a full size HK USP, a P7PSP, the HK45C, or my VP9 and not print while wearing a light jacket, sweater, or sweatshirt.
In the summer when I have dress really light I carry a Kahr PM9 in the same spot using an IWB, or my Colt Detective special again with an IWB. You might want to give that a try. Both Fist and Kramer make reasonably priced holsters and will make one for your specific pistol if they don't already have one. Their turnaround time isn't s long as others. Del Fatti no longer makes holsters for anything other than 1911s generally for law officers and has quite a long waiting list, but Nightingale will build you a nice custom holster and has a pretty quick turnaround for a one man shop. You can't go wrong with any of them for a SOB, or IWB holster. JMHO
https://www.nightingaleleather.com/
http://www.fist-holsters.com/
http://www.kramerleather.com/
In the summer when I have dress really light I carry a Kahr PM9 in the same spot using an IWB, or my Colt Detective special again with an IWB. You might want to give that a try. Both Fist and Kramer make reasonably priced holsters and will make one for your specific pistol if they don't already have one. Their turnaround time isn't s long as others. Del Fatti no longer makes holsters for anything other than 1911s generally for law officers and has quite a long waiting list, but Nightingale will build you a nice custom holster and has a pretty quick turnaround for a one man shop. You can't go wrong with any of them for a SOB, or IWB holster. JMHO
https://www.nightingaleleather.com/
http://www.fist-holsters.com/
http://www.kramerleather.com/
sigarms228
New member
You will love it!
I got my 1.5 without stiffener and it is awesome. Guy I work with has two of them with the stiffener and he just raves about them too.