Really want a 1911, but considering a revolver...Hmmmm

You did not mention how much experience you have or if you will be receiving formal instruction. IMHO the revolver is better for a beginner, a little safer to handle and you won't get into problems with bad magazines, etc. Also reloading for a semiauto is a little trickier, you have to be more careful about OAL of reloading rounds, case length, etc.
The correct answer is get an M1911 with a .22 conversion unit AND a medium to heavy frame .357 with adjustable sights. That way you cover all the bases.
 
I really dont see how Lavid2002 is a beginner to firearms seeing as how hes reloading rifle. maybe new to handguns but not firearms. and while it is not a sign of experience, hes got 2000+ posts on here
 
I'm a revolver fan even though I own quite a few semi-auto pistols. My main carry guns, bedside guns and the guns I depend on most often are wheelguns. I find them simpler to use under stress, more reliable, more accurate and more powerful (in some calibers) than autos.

But if you really want a 1911, go for it. Learning to shoot a revolver well in both SA and DA modes will prepare you well for a lifetime of shooting. It'll be harder to move from the SA 1911 platform to a DA platform and you'll have to learn to shoot the DA from scratch.

azredhawk44 said:
I've heard there are documented instances, back when police carried revolvers, of them losing gunfights because they were so practiced at stuffing spent cartridges into pockets rather than getting their wheelgun reloaded ASAP.

True. In the 1970 Newhall Incident, four California Highway Patrol officers were killed. In the analysis of the incident, it was found that one or more officers failed to reload quickly. One officer was found dead with six empty brass in his hand. Another officer had six empties in his pants pocket.

Why? Up until then, the CHP academy instructors demanded neatness on the firing range. Officers would shoot six rounds, unload and drop the spent cases into large coffee cans at each shooting station. This habit became "ingrained" in their shooting behavior. When a real shooting crisis occurred, they reverted to their training. Hence, one officer, trying to be "neat", emptied brass into his hand, then with no coffee can, put them in his pocket!

Since 1970, the CHP doctrine was changed to dump empties to the ground and reload. The switch to semi-autos has made his a little simpler, though a directive early on mandated that instructors NOT stress the need to be careful of dropping magazines on concrete. This was in the aftermath of a shooting early after adopting semi's where an officer removed the magazine and pocketed it because there was no "pad" for it to drop onto. He said he did it automatically, thinking he should not damage his state-issued magazines. :rolleyes:
 
Everyone needs at least one quality revolver,,,

The ONLY reason to get a revolver is to get a cartridge not chambered in a semi-auto.

We wheel-gunners could easily say the same about semi-autos,,,

Why do people have to be one camp or the other exclusively,,,
I'm primarily a wheel gun shootin' kind of guy,,,
But I'm in the market for that one pistol.

I just haven't decided upon The One as yet.

My advice is get one quality revolver,,,
Get a S&W, Colt, or Ruger.

Then when you are out with your mag fed Ladies,,,
And a bunch of wheel guys come up to the firing line,,,
You have something to pull out of your shooting bag to play with.
 
There was a time when pistols were unreliable and revolvers weren't. But those days are long gone. If reliability were an issue, people who depend on their firearms would be carrying revolvers - but they don't. Revolvers are way over-priced for what they do - they just cost more to make.

The 1911 has come along way from the finicky Colts. And if you want the ultimate in simplicity and rugged reliability - get a Glock. A 1911 is way easier for a beginner to shoot - and I've trained a few.

Like I said, the ONLY thing a revolver offers today over a semi-auto is chamberings for high-end cartridges. IMO, if you get a revolver in .45acp, you've taken a big step backwards. If you want 44 mag power level, a revolver makes sense.

If I wanted 357 mag power level I would get a Glock M20 before I picked up a 4" barrel revolver. At the .45acp power level there are multiple semi-auto choices - I just happen to like the 1911 best (but the Glock M21sf is pretty likeable too).

Just voicing my opinion. I offered it for free, so you don't have anything invested in it. :)
 
IMO, if you get a revolver in .45acp, you've taken a big step backwards.

Well, the OP suggested he'd like to participate in matches. Those that do, and just simply dig revolvers, and have a 4" .45acp revolver can shoot IDPA, USPSA, ICORE, steel, bowling pin, bullseye. Did I miss anything? And it'd make a dandy HD gun to boot. This kind of versatility's on par with a 1911.
 
Lets see how many questions I can answer here : )

I'll give you my best bit of advice (which new shooters/owners never take). Buy a 22 rimfire and learn how to shoot before getting a centerfire. Trigger control, sight picture, grip, everything needs to be learned. Unless your rich, you aren't going to pick everything up on a couple of boxes of shells every couple of weeks.
I have been shooting rifle and shotgun for a little over 5 years. I have sight picture, trigger control, and all that jazz down but I dont have the muscle memory from shooting pistol as I have done very little (Under 300 rounds or so in my whole LIFE) : /


I'd recommend trying a revolver out, then, to be sure you don't absolutely hate the DA trigger
I have only really shot SA on revolvers. I have fired DA on a few occasions but not enough to know how accurate I was with it. Im sure it could be something I can learn



you swap out the slide of the 1911

it will cost more, but i vote for getting a Springfield GI

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/32588

and then getting a kimber or whatever .22lr conversion kit
http://www.botachtactical.com/kiritacokibl.html

you will have the MOST fun with this.

Did I forget to mention if I get a 1911 I will 100% positively be buying a .22 conversion kit for it. Thats another reason why i wanted a 1911. I can get a 1911, and a .22 all in one package. Easy to train with, cheap, same platform, etc...

I'd suggest you NOT dump brass into your hand when shooting at the range. If you wind up in a home defense or personal defense situation and need to reload, you will instinctually be stuffing spent cartridges into your hand that should be trying to stick a speedloader into the cylinder instead.
Shotgun is for home defense, pistols are for fun. But I wont be dumping any brass into my hand dont worry :P


Springfield makes some decent guns on a budget.
Why I want one : )

You did not mention how much experience you have or if you will be receiving formal instruction.
Shotgun-No formal training but I tend to do better than 90%of the guys at the range, and at the clay shoots : P I usually get 22-23/25
Rifle-Formal training for 2 years, then broke off, shot 2 years solo after the training and started comp, now i'm back shooting competition with some training. Always trying to improve. Even when I didn't have trainins I tried to teach myself by studying....
Pistol-Had a old veteran teach me with a .22 revolver. Learned a lot from rifle shooting transfers into pistol shooting. By the end of the day we set up 2 shotgun shell hulls at 25 yards...first shot I nailed one (Couldnt believe my eyes) took another shot at the second *Missed* Hit it on the next shot. Called it a day :P
Aside from that all I have really done with handguns is messing around. No formal training....

I really dont see how Lavid2002 is a beginner to firearms seeing as how hes reloading rifle. maybe new to handguns but not firearms. and while it is not a sign of experience, hes got 2000+ posts on here

PSH! Dont you know there is a direct correlation between post # and firearms knowledge :p

(JK)

BILLCA

Thats INSANE! You would think that the guys training these officers would have taken these things into consideration! I see a lot of guys who shoot shotgun shoot, then pump the hull into a garbage can. When I shoot my pump I literally have to hold the action if I want to do something like that because my instinct is to pump the gun as quickly as possible after shooting.
 
"The ONLY reason to get a revolver is to get a cartridge not chambered in a semi-auto."

The above is only one reason to carry a revolver. The best reason to carry a revolver is there are still a few of us old folks out there who believe we can end any fight we may end up in with six (6) or less shots. Some of us don’t believe in spray and pray.
 
Or to have a gun that clears a misfire with the pull of a trigger
or to have a simple gun
or if your a collector
or if you want to not chase brass
or if you like to load dummy rounds and real rounds and use russian roulette to train for trigger control and flinch
Or if you want a gun that cant be pressed out of battery on a target
etc... etc...

;)
 
I addressed that post read my response...:p

I am reloading so cost will be minimal...

I have also been shooting for 5 years and I already have sight picture, trigger control, and things of that nature down. I am also buying a .22 conversion kit for the 1911 if I get one of those first (Its leaning that way now)
 
Why so certain about buying the conversion kit?? I looked into that a while back and the conversion kit was about as much as just getting the other gun. Just curious i guess
 
I love the idea of having the same controls, feel, trigger, and things like that for a gun, but having it chambered in .22lr...


I have a .22 conversion kit for my ar15 and I LOVE it. Its the best to train with. Having one in a 1911 is just another reason to get a 1911 for me.


If I have a ruger mark2 or browning buckmark its cool to train with that, but its a different gun. That would be like training with a browning BAR for a M1 garand competition in my opinion.
 
I love the idea of having the same controls, feel, trigger, and things like that for a gun, but having it chambered in .22lr...

I wish every gun in the world was alternately chambered in .22lr

Id have so many fun toys that didnt break the bank through ammo cost. PS90, FS2000, PPK, M1A, C93, Desert Eagle, etc
 
If I have a ruger mark2 or browning buckmark its cool to train with that, but its a different gun. That would be like training with a browning BAR for a M1 garand competition in my opinion.

however, they do have the Ruger MKIII 22/45 which was designed to have the same grip, grip width, and the controls are in the same place, slide release and safety as the 1911, to be used as a trainer for the 1911

or at least thats what ruger wants you to think
http://www.ruger.com/products/2245/index.html
 
Yeah i took a peek at that ruger 4522 ... not my thing : / I would rather have a 1911 platform too. Asthetics play a part too : )

Plus I need another pistol permit for that 4522, another NICS check, another FFL transfer because I KNOW places around here wont ever stock them....
 
Lavid2002

I have only really shot SA on revolvers. I have fired DA on a few occasions but not enough to know how accurate I was with it. Im sure it could be something I can learn
You certainly can, especially with a handgun that either comes from the factory with a decent trigger or has been fired enough to smooth out any minor imperfections. Tuned actions are even better.

When we used to shoot PPC, making 10/10 or 9/10 shots into the 10-ring at 25 yards was good shooting. Putting them all in to the X-Ring was excellent shooting. So it is quite possible to learn to shoot well out to 50 yards to get the basics. You then build on that experience to expand the skill set -- moving laterally, shooting one-handed, one handed reload drills, etc.

You mentioned shooting shotgun hulls with a .22.... good exercise. The trigger control you've learned for long guns only applies a little bit to handguns, especially in DA or defensive shooting. Handguns are harder to shoot well than long guns and require much more practice. You're good if you can hit those hulls at 15-20 yards each time. You're better if you can hit one per second. You're expert if you can do it one handed that fast. :cool:

Thats INSANE! You would think that the guys training these officers would have taken these things into consideration! I see a lot of guys who shoot shotgun shoot, then pump the hull into a garbage can. When I shoot my pump I literally have to hold the action if I want to do something like that because my instinct is to pump the gun as quickly as possible after shooting.

You have to remember the times. I'm pretty sure this was before you were born. Officers trained in 1967-1969 were living in an era where some folks still didn't lock their doors all the time, kids played outside in the streets and parks were safe enough for kids unsupervised.¹

Firearms training consisted of probably 32-40 hours of instruction to ensure recruits could hit their targets at 25 yards and keep 5/6 in the black on a bullseye or inside the 8-ring on a B27 silhoutte. Flashlight technique consisted of the FBI method or none at all.²

It's not surprising that there was a lack of "combat thinking" in the academy. Few incidents had occurred over the years where officers needed more than six rounds or the five to eight rounds of #00 Buck from the shotgun. Back then, the thinking was that in a prolonged shootout, the BG wanted to get away. If you were reloading you were under cover and your opponent was looking to get away from you... not aggressively charge in order to kill you.³

It really was a different America then. In most cities (at least where we lived) if someone was beating the crap out of his wife in the driveway, neighbors stopped it. If police arrived and the man was at gunpoint, the cops took charge, cuffed the suspect and the guns disappeared into waistbands or pockets while the owners told their version of events. In 1968, chances were that a gun owner was also a veteran of either WW-II or Korea. Younger ones might have been in Vietnam. Up until late '68, it was legal to order a gun by mail or walk into a hardware store, buy a handgun and ammo and walk out without filling out a single form.


¹ Mostly in the rural and growing suburban areas. Inner cities always had their risks.
² The FBI method used the flashlight in the weak hand, extended away from the body horizontially or vertically. Shooting at the light thus meant missing the officer's body.
³ This began to change in the late 60's with politically-motivated radical groups taking a much more confrontational attitude. And often they were better armed than your run of the mill thug.
 
It really was a different America then. In most cities (at least where we lived) if someone was beating the crap out of his wife in the driveway, neighbors stopped it. If police arrived and the man was at gunpoint, the cops took charge, cuffed the suspect and the guns disappeared into waistbands or pockets while the owners told their version of events. In 1968, chances were that a gun owner was also a veteran of either WW-II or Korea. Younger ones might have been in Vietnam. Up until late '68, it was legal to order a gun by mail or walk into a hardware store, buy a handgun and ammo and walk out without filling out a single form.
Bill CA. I bought my first handgun as you described above. In 1974, our rookie firearms training did not even mention the use of a flashlight when shooting. In fact the only official training we got with a flashlight was, try to remember to hit them with your flashlight instead of your baton as it will sound better in court. Yes, it's much better to admit you popped some combative drunk with a metal tube filled with a heavy metal than to admit you struck them with a plastic baton; how times change.

You are correct sir we live in a much different time, and sadly I don't believe it's a better one.
 
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