It was a member here that pointed out to me what he claimed was the original purpose of the blade on the trigger, with the reduction in unsquare pressures being a side benefit (I too have questioned how useful it actually is in that regard). I thought about the fact that I've seen tabbed triggers on a number of bolt action rifles with adjustable pull weights (i.e. Savage's "Accutrigger") and that plus the explanation made sense to me. I doubt Glock was the first person to use this system, but whoever did was rather clever.
Really like my sig but . . .
- Thread starter Prof Young
- Start date
turtlehead
New member
We're talking about cocked and UNlocked. If your safety was off and you fell off of a ten story building onto your head there is a small possibility the gun could discharge. So try to avoid that.
Limnophile
New member
fastlane,
Condition 1 carry is safer than carrying a Glock. I carry my CZs in condition 1, and regard cocked and unlocked (not that I would carry this way) as Glock carry mode. However, TR's contributions seem to make a Glock a bit safer than a cocked and unlocked pistol.
Condition 1 carry is safer than carrying a Glock. I carry my CZs in condition 1, and regard cocked and unlocked (not that I would carry this way) as Glock carry mode. However, TR's contributions seem to make a Glock a bit safer than a cocked and unlocked pistol.
It might not actually be that high, but probably still rare. Given that I am a walking example of Murphy's laws I'll use the safety.
In terms of drop safety a Glock also only has a partially tensioned striker as opposed to a number of other options from companies lately. The idea is that even if the striker were to be released with the trigger at the rest position it wouldn't have enough energy to detonate the primer. In terms of drop safety, I'd argue a Glock is notably safer than cocked and unlocked with all these factors (FPB, trigger blade, and partially tensioned striker) combined.
Mike_Fontenot
New member
Prof Young said:
Given that you don't want to carry with hammer cocked, I'm surprised that you didn't buy a DA/SA Sig. (If I ever give up on my 10mm Kimber 1911 and buy a 10mm Sig 220, I'd get the DA/SA version, because the 220 SAO doesn't have enough redundancy in safeties to suit me.)
Splitting hairs here, but the slide can be moved on the P238 with the safety engaged (so the slide is not actually locked like a typical 1911).
Either way I feel the Sig is as safe as a Glock for daily use, as it still requires a decent amount of force to pull the trigger. The story may be a bit different if it was in your pocket and had a alb trigger (safety disengaged), but I don't think that is the case. All of my holsters have good retention, so I am not worried about one falling out of the holster and have had no need to check/test the drop safety. I would still carry with the safety engaged since that is the way Sig intended it to be carried.
I take it you mean that you can put the gun on safe, and chamber a round. Peace of mind is a good attribute for a CC handgun, but there is no way to actually "lock" the slide when carrying. Not that I mean there is an issue here... Quite the opposite as I think being able to load a gun with it set to safe is safer than the typical 1911 setup (albeit small).
Mike_Fontenot
New member
Vyse said:
But being able to rack the slide with the safety on also means that the safety is only blocking the trigger. The thumb safety on a 1911 is more robust, IMO, because it locks the sear and also prevents full rotation of the hammer. But given the fact that the 1911's thumb safety must be off for chambering the first round, and also for manually ejecting the chambered round, I think the grip safety (which blocks the trigger) is indispensable (and I also highly value the grip-lever-controlled firing-pin safety on my Kimber). Whenever I need to manually move the slide (requiring the thumb safety to be off), I'm careful to either stay completely off the grip lever (by griping the handle well below the lever), OR (when slingshotting the first round of a new mag after a slide-lockback), I use a "bullseye" slingshot procedure, where the trigger is pulled fully aft when the slide is locked back, and is carefully held there during the entire slingshotting operation ... that prevents the trigger from resetting, and the gun can't fire due to an "inertial trigger pull" when the slide slams home.
The debate can go on and on but the end result will need to be what the individual is comfortable packing on his person. Personally I carry a Sig P238 or P938 and have little worries about accidental discharges as long as I do my part to insure personal safety.
I carried a single action Browning HP cocked and locked as a police duty weapon for some time utilizing a holster with a safety strap between hammer and pistol. I was not concerned about the weapon discharging accidentally but many of the public chose to tell me about the hammer being in a cocked position ( most police carried revolvers then) with great concern in their voice.
I carried a single action Browning HP cocked and locked as a police duty weapon for some time utilizing a holster with a safety strap between hammer and pistol. I was not concerned about the weapon discharging accidentally but many of the public chose to tell me about the hammer being in a cocked position ( most police carried revolvers then) with great concern in their voice.
Dreaming100Straight
New member
I would love to have p938 if it was allowed in California. I am well satisfied with my p229, but it is a bit too large and heavy to carry in some circumstances.
My 938 has a half cock on the hammer.
I've tried to pull the trigger in this position,and thought I'd break it before anything happened(I couldn't make the hammer fall).
I wonder how safe it would be to carry with a hot chamber with the hammer at half cock ?
Also,you cant cock the hammer with the safety on,
to fire it,you'd have to click off the safety,cock,then fire.
Or leave the safety off,cock,and fire.
I guess the scariest part would be lowering the hammer on a live chamber.
Thoughts ?
Mike
I've tried to pull the trigger in this position,and thought I'd break it before anything happened(I couldn't make the hammer fall).
I wonder how safe it would be to carry with a hot chamber with the hammer at half cock ?
Also,you cant cock the hammer with the safety on,
to fire it,you'd have to click off the safety,cock,then fire.
Or leave the safety off,cock,and fire.
I guess the scariest part would be lowering the hammer on a live chamber.
Thoughts ?
Mike
Prof Young
New member
Mike the reason is . . .
Mike the reason I didn't get a DA/SA Sig is . . . I just don't know enough about guns yet. However, I'm learning, learning, learning.
Live well, be safe
Prof Young
Mike the reason I didn't get a DA/SA Sig is . . . I just don't know enough about guns yet. However, I'm learning, learning, learning.
Live well, be safe
Prof Young
The proper way to carry the P238 and guns like it is safety on, cocked, and with one in the chamber. Safety will not be an issue as long as you use a quality holster that covers both the safety and the trigger, the gun is in good working order and proper firearm handling techniques are observed.
Also Prof an example of a DA/SA gun is a walther PPK. At least I think those are DA/SA....
Anyway Double Action/Single action means that for the first round that is fired the trigger mechanism is what cocks the hammer (Like a double action revolver; most revolvers), and after that first shot is fired the recoil is what cocks the hammer from then on.
Anyway Double Action/Single action means that for the first round that is fired the trigger mechanism is what cocks the hammer (Like a double action revolver; most revolvers), and after that first shot is fired the recoil is what cocks the hammer from then on.
Dreaming100Straight
New member
It's not a Sig, but for a micro DAO look at the Kahr, which can be had in a 9 or .380. In a sub compact, and once again it isn't a Sig, DAO that can be had with a safety, look at the Smith M&P Shield. Myself, but I am far from knowledgeable about handguns, I don't think a safety is needed with most DA handguns. Carrying a 238 without a holster covering the trigger, in the pocket or otherwise, is nuts.