Realistic grouping expectations
- Thread starter TheDutchman19
- Start date
What I see with postings of three shot groups is some called the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy .
Here are 19 shots fired prone with a sling from my rack grade Garand, which is what I expect for a rack grade Garand, and I could have claimed a number of three shot clusters were the accuracy of the rifle, when in fact, the rifle will barely hold the black, and it was never expected to hold more than the black.
Now if the group was a nice 20 shot group, like this, then maybe those 147 FMJ's would be worth bragging about. This group was shot by a Bud of mine, prone with a sling, with irons. The 223 is a cross fire from the guy on the next firing point!
What I expect in accuracy for GI ammunition is something like this target: Ball ammunition accuracy standards vary, but it is my recollection that 3.5 MOA was all that was expected out of it.
I did shoot some IMI 148 FMJ's and the accuracy from the things was contemptible:
The rifle is capable of very good accuracy with good bullets. At least this is a five shot group, which gives me some confidence that a ten shot group or twenty shot group will be close, though it will be larger. I did take that rifle to a 1000 yard match, shot the same loads, prone with a sling, and shot a 194, but I won't be shooting HM scores with military surplus 147 FMJ's.
Here are 19 shots fired prone with a sling from my rack grade Garand, which is what I expect for a rack grade Garand, and I could have claimed a number of three shot clusters were the accuracy of the rifle, when in fact, the rifle will barely hold the black, and it was never expected to hold more than the black.
Now if the group was a nice 20 shot group, like this, then maybe those 147 FMJ's would be worth bragging about. This group was shot by a Bud of mine, prone with a sling, with irons. The 223 is a cross fire from the guy on the next firing point!
What I expect in accuracy for GI ammunition is something like this target: Ball ammunition accuracy standards vary, but it is my recollection that 3.5 MOA was all that was expected out of it.
I did shoot some IMI 148 FMJ's and the accuracy from the things was contemptible:
The rifle is capable of very good accuracy with good bullets. At least this is a five shot group, which gives me some confidence that a ten shot group or twenty shot group will be close, though it will be larger. I did take that rifle to a 1000 yard match, shot the same loads, prone with a sling, and shot a 194, but I won't be shooting HM scores with military surplus 147 FMJ's.
Boomer58cal
New member
Heck, even my EL Cheapo Remi 770( I know, I know, it was a gift ) 7mm mag would shoot 1- 1.5 MOA out of the box.
Once I floated the barrel and bedded the action it will now shoot .5 MOA.
A good scoped bolt action rifle should shoot MOA or better with ammo it likes.
Boomer
Once I floated the barrel and bedded the action it will now shoot .5 MOA.
A good scoped bolt action rifle should shoot MOA or better with ammo it likes.
Boomer
1/2" -1" group at 100 yards is more than accurate enough for a hunting rifle. The shooter has to be in the "zone" as much as the equipment.
My Feather weight Jack O'Connor rifle far exceeded that with over the counter ammo. This is far from the rule of what is expected. In this case, I did get what I payed for but its not always the case. I'll take it anyway.
My Feather weight Jack O'Connor rifle far exceeded that with over the counter ammo. This is far from the rule of what is expected. In this case, I did get what I payed for but its not always the case. I'll take it anyway.
reynolds357
New member
Dutchman, I would say 1/2" at 100yds would be the worst you can expect from such a rig. Having said that, I have seen some real expensive rifles built to your specs that were just barely sub moa. Notice I did not say 1/2 MOA. 1/2" at 100 is much easier than 5" at 1k.
Peter M. Eick
New member
Even my 30 carbine (1944 Infield) can do this size group for 100 shots at 100 yrds.
Realistically I would expect to get a group like this with a production gun at 100 yrds:
50 shots, 100 yrds off the bench.
curmudgeon1
New member
My fiance is aware of which end of the gun the bullet comes out of, and understands somewhat what "grouping" means; sometimes, she goes to the range with me and uses the spotting scope. Well, once in a while, the rifle puts two shots in the same hole and with her "grouping" thoughts she asked "what is that called" ?