Realism and the pistol.

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think LEO should remember that they are police officers not soldiers. If you run up on something you can't handle with your side arm, call someone who can.

I think that would be S.W.A.T. or some sort of Task Force. If you don't have any of those and you run up on something you can't handle, back off, or find someone who will loan you a long gun.
 
I think LEO should remember that they are police officers not soldiers. If you run up on something you can't handle with your side arm, call someone who can.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately it does not work that way very often.
 
3shot group
I think LEO should remember that they are police officers not soldiers. If you run up on something you can't handle with your side arm, call someone who can.

I think that would be S.W.A.T. or some sort of Task Force. If you don't have any of those and you run up on something you can't handle, back off, or find someone who will loan you a long gun.

Because of active shooters type incidents we are now trained to go as soon as we get there no waiting for back up (SWAT will be called but it will take them a minimum of an hour to respond). Move to the sound of the gun fire and engage. I think this is what the officer was referring to when he made the comment about his pistol being used to get his rifle. Because my Ar15 is in the trunk and if I rolled into an active shooter, I would if they were close enough engage with my pistol but getting to my rifle as soon as possible would be in the forefront of my mind if I could not finish it right away with a pistol. Now excluding active shooter I completely agree with bk688 that my side arm is the most likely weapon to be used. bk688 your department does not allow to too have patrol rifles? I didn't know there was any departments left that still had that attitude>
 
3shotGroup...


Sir. With all due respect to your own experiences, thats not how it works. Police officers operate in all kinds of environments. While a patrol rifle is the best of idea's in a rural environment, it may not be so in the other end of the spectrum such as an urban envrionment.

I admit to a current trend of militerizing the police. While it makes it easier to be a leo, it makes it much harder to be a policeman.

A patrol rifle has nothing to do with this militerization of the police. It is about providing the individual officer with the best set of tools available to accomplish the police mission in the particular environment.
 
Amen, Glen. I used 94 Winchesters, etc. for a good part of my career. Now the outfit furnishes rifles and I can finally leave my old iron at home.
 
I didn't really think anyone took that phrase to be gospel. It's just kind of a tongue-in-cheek saying.

Me thinks you may be taking things too literally:confused:
 
Unfortunately, the gun world does lead to dichotomous, black and white thinking. New folks spout these kind of phrases as gospel.

How many cliches to we get posted all the time?

Oh, my old mommy who weighs 95 pounds and has arthritis wants a SD gun.

ANS: Twelve gauge pistol grip - ENUF SAID!
 
I have had my rifle with me at a latrine....and while showering.... just saying.

But in the good old USA walking around with a rifle in the mean streets of anytown USA will get you proned out at a minimum....
 
Unfortunately, the gun world does lead to dichotomous, black and white thinking. New folks spout these kind of phrases as gospel.

How many cliches to we get posted all the time?

Oh, my old mommy who weighs 95 pounds and has arthritis wants a SD gun.

ANS: Twelve gauge pistol grip - ENUF SAID!
Click to expand...

Exactly.

I managed an LGS for about a year from the second half of 2012 until June 2013. During that time, I ran into misunderstood or abused phrases on a daily basis. Most of the time, they were used in an attempt to support some individual's broken idea of what defensive situations look like. Most commonly, they seemed designed to rationalize lazy and thoughtless ownership by the user.
 
They are also used to posture and pretend you are part of the bad guy fraternity of steely eyed dealers of death (thanks Greg Hamilton for the phrase).

At a match yesterday - two LEOs were talking about mag placement on their duty belts. One wanted to carry one more beyond the usual two.

So a guy who is always about 18 points down on a stage and takes about a century to finish - says to them - What about a New York Reload?

Give me a break. How about an extra roscoe in your pants.
 
I understand most civillian gunfights are at 1 - 2 arms length distances, which is uncomfortably much closer than the 7 yard LEO reported average gunfight distance.

Fight your way to your rifle / shotgun? As Hiker mentioned: in your Jason Statham / Xbox world - absolutely.

Since I live in reality, where exactly am I traveling and who am I interacting with to "need" my rifle?

Don't go stupid places with stupid people and do stupid things...
 
It's true that in the real world, the pistol is most likely your only line of recourse against aggression.

But in a "SHTF, world falling down around me" scenario you'd better bet that my handgun is only a means of getting to a longarm.

Agreed, anything short of that, it's a gimmicky catch-phrase.

Of course, I also use the terms scattergun and wheelgun on occasion just because I enjoy colorful language. ;)
 
Jo6pak said:
It's true that in the real world, the pistol is most likely your only line of recourse against aggression.

But in a "SHTF, world falling down around me" scenario you'd better bet that my handgun is only a means of getting to a longarm.
Click to expand...

Actually, long guns have only been used for static location (home, business, etc) defense in the vast majority of modern examples of SHTF. People don't carry them around. Concealed handguns remain the best option in SHTF scenarios short of post apocalyptic chaos fantasy.
 
"A pistol is used to fight your way to a rifle."
Click to expand...

I've seen that quote often over the years.

It makes sense if one is in Iraq or Afghanistan and finds himself separated from his rifle by a short distance. Or if a LEO can get back to his rifle in the patrol car.

For the rest of us, it just doesn't apply.
 
Sigh....

The whole point of the cliche, IMHO, is to underscore the reality that a handgun may not be the best choice when (1) you have a choice; and (2) things are serious. Nothing more, and nothing less.

There's the story about the Sheriff who goes to the fancy garden party. The hostess goes up to him and says, " Sheriff, I see you're wearing your sidearm. Are you expecting trouble? At my party?"

The Sheriff replies, "Why no ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I'd be carrying a rifle."

I don't see anything is to be gained by over-thinking this.
 
It is a matter of perspective.

If your are in war, a rifle will most likely be a better firearm. So, a handgun is a secondary firearm. A person in war stuck with a handgun is/should be looking for the first available rifle to be more effective. In this case, "...fighting to a rifle ..." may apply.

I can imagine a scenario where an LEO may need/want to have a rifle instead of a handgun while in combat. In this case, "...fighting to a rifle ..." may apply.

If you are a civilian in a mall defending yourself from a person running amok, "...fighting to a rifle ..." does not apply. Unless you keep a rifle in a baby stroller.

I can also imagine being attack by zombies and I am running out of handgun ammo:).
 
The OP is indulging in a "straw Man" argument.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

I seriously doubt that people who use that phrase are suggesting that they always have a rifle near by which they can get to in a fire fight. I also doubt that they are implying that a handgun is a negligible tool for self defense.

I'd like to suggest that it is a humorous statement reflecting the desire to have the biggest weapon possible should the deed arise.
 
Buzzcook

The OP is indulging in a "straw Man" argument.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

I seriously doubt that people who use that phrase are suggesting that they always have a rifle near by which they can get to in a fire fight. I also doubt that they are implying that a handgun is a negligible tool for self defense.

I'd like to suggest that it is a humorous statement reflecting the desire to have the biggest weapon possible should the deed arise.
Click to expand...

Buzzcook, I could not agree more.

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan

Saavik: Humor. It is a difficult concept. It is not logical.

Kirk: We learn by doing. ​

Humor is not often found on the internet or discussion forums. Because most people aren't funny.

jglsprings
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top