Real Life situation, what I would do differently
- Thread starter mica
- Start date
It seems like everyone else has pretty much hit on all the points, but I would just like to add one thing.
I am seriously on the fence as to open carry. Strongly leaning towards not liking it at all. My opinion is that I like to maintain the element of surprise in a given situation. If the criminal sees my exposed weapon before he attacks me, it allows him to have critical info, and possibly change his tactic to include dealing with a gun. Might make him kill me quickly as opposed to just robbing me, because he sees I have the weapon.
Put yourself in a different situation. You are approached by a couple guys. One clearly has a gun, the other none showing. Who do you shoot first? I like keeping any edge I can have.....
I am seriously on the fence as to open carry. Strongly leaning towards not liking it at all. My opinion is that I like to maintain the element of surprise in a given situation. If the criminal sees my exposed weapon before he attacks me, it allows him to have critical info, and possibly change his tactic to include dealing with a gun. Might make him kill me quickly as opposed to just robbing me, because he sees I have the weapon.
Put yourself in a different situation. You are approached by a couple guys. One clearly has a gun, the other none showing. Who do you shoot first? I like keeping any edge I can have.....
leadcounsel
Moderator
While open carry is legal in Colorado, I wouldn't do it in an urban area. I think it just invites weird looks, suspicion, repeatedly answering the same harassing questions, and also routine harrassment from the police. I think it would be prudent for police officers to stop someone carrying a gun to question him and I don't need that hassel in my life.
I also think open carry may "target" the person for an attack. The attack may be swift and deadly to immediately disable you.
I also think open carry may "target" the person for an attack. The attack may be swift and deadly to immediately disable you.
Providing open carry is legal w/out permit in a particular state (i.e., in WI), do you really believe it's appropriate for police to stop and question you when you're engaged in lawful activity and openly carrying a firearm?
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You're shopping, no one has called police about the spooky man with a firearm, but an officer notices you and your firearm whilst you're picking out a new cordless drill at Home Depot.
There's no required permit needed (i.e., no need for officer to check), you have not attempted to rob the establishment (i.e., not engaged in unlawful activity)... so what exactly are the prudent reasons behind an officer's questioning, and what particularly prudent questions can you foresee being asked in this situation?
tackdriver
New member
Ah, I've run into this situation several times at my apartment complex with shady kids. Former tenants below me were in their early 20s and their pad seemed to be a hangout for underage partying.
The first few times, when it wasn't obvious that they were coming and going from this apartment and they were between me and my front door, I asked them from a safe distance what they were doing. If they were waiting for so-and-so to get home, I told them to wait somewhere else. My response the one time I got lip was, "I live here, you don't. You're in my way. You wouldn't like it if I started showing up on your doorstep everytime you went home at night. This isn't a bus stop. Go away or I'm calling the cops."
Two weeks later they were partying in the parking lot -- drinking and yelling (in Ohio in January) and I got fed up and called the cops. They pulled up three deep and just started throwing kids in the back seat. I felt bad because I definitely had my wilder days, but I never hassled anyone and I certainly wasn't getting hammered in a parking lot when it was 10 degrees outside.
The tenants were evicted about two weeks later. This was in February or so. Maintenance is still trying to clean that apartment out. They even had to rip out the toilet the wrecked the place so bad.
The first few times, when it wasn't obvious that they were coming and going from this apartment and they were between me and my front door, I asked them from a safe distance what they were doing. If they were waiting for so-and-so to get home, I told them to wait somewhere else. My response the one time I got lip was, "I live here, you don't. You're in my way. You wouldn't like it if I started showing up on your doorstep everytime you went home at night. This isn't a bus stop. Go away or I'm calling the cops."
Two weeks later they were partying in the parking lot -- drinking and yelling (in Ohio in January) and I got fed up and called the cops. They pulled up three deep and just started throwing kids in the back seat. I felt bad because I definitely had my wilder days, but I never hassled anyone and I certainly wasn't getting hammered in a parking lot when it was 10 degrees outside.
The tenants were evicted about two weeks later. This was in February or so. Maintenance is still trying to clean that apartment out. They even had to rip out the toilet the wrecked the place so bad.
Superhornet
New member
Leadcounsel has a very good point. Do not broadcast your potential.
I don't post much anymore, but i'm on here more than once a day scanning new threads and posts. That said, Rosar1, I've noticed the odds of your posts including a personal insult for no reason are about 1:2. Seems just about every other time I see your name on a post you are insulting someone for no apparent reason.
This thread was started because someone had a situation they wanted to tell about, explain their thought process, and discuss other actions they could have taken and/or perhaps should have take. You compare this person to a 70 year old lady, then you make an immediate assumption that every time 2 people are seen the thread starter thinks they are evil.
I feel it was explained very well in the opening post why he was suspect of the intentions of the 2 and didn't think there was any question involving what he identified as a possible threat. It seemed to me he was looking for input on actions he could have/should have taken in place of what he did in the situation.
I'm sure I'll be the target of your next insult, and I don't mind, I just ask that you try to realize this is a forum for exchanging ideas and thoughts, a place where folks come to get answers to questions, real or hypothetical, they have that they are unsure of. TFL has and incredible ammount of knowlege and experience available to anyone who asks.
If its a person with decades of learning and experience OR a newbie that happened to know a good bit of info, the wealth of knowledge and experience available on TFL is amazing. People share what they know so others don't have to learn the hard way by making a poor decision the first time they are in a situation. This is an exchange, not a verbal joust.
This thread was started because someone had a situation they wanted to tell about, explain their thought process, and discuss other actions they could have taken and/or perhaps should have take. You compare this person to a 70 year old lady, then you make an immediate assumption that every time 2 people are seen the thread starter thinks they are evil.
I feel it was explained very well in the opening post why he was suspect of the intentions of the 2 and didn't think there was any question involving what he identified as a possible threat. It seemed to me he was looking for input on actions he could have/should have taken in place of what he did in the situation.
I'm sure I'll be the target of your next insult, and I don't mind, I just ask that you try to realize this is a forum for exchanging ideas and thoughts, a place where folks come to get answers to questions, real or hypothetical, they have that they are unsure of. TFL has and incredible ammount of knowlege and experience available to anyone who asks.
If its a person with decades of learning and experience OR a newbie that happened to know a good bit of info, the wealth of knowledge and experience available on TFL is amazing. People share what they know so others don't have to learn the hard way by making a poor decision the first time they are in a situation. This is an exchange, not a verbal joust.
If you would have read the thread you would see that the only indication he had that these 2 people were "up to no good" was that they were young. Good call
We all know how the typical 19 year old these days are all looking to rob someone
Like I said, they could have been visiting a friend, relative, or just taking a walk. Last time I checked that's still legal. Human beings do travel on foot, you know.
We all know how the typical 19 year old these days are all looking to rob someone Like I said, they could have been visiting a friend, relative, or just taking a walk. Last time I checked that's still legal. Human beings do travel on foot, you know.The thread is not about who is and isn't bad, its about what to do in the situation. If you had read the opening post you may have realized that, good call. There is mention of more than the fact they are young in the opening post, but the makeup of the 2 in the situation doesn't matter at all. If you had read the opening post you may have realized that as well, good call.
Sorry, i don't do smiley faces, and I do hope this will be my last post discussing things with you. You defend yourself to what I said by not talking about what I said. It doesn't matter if it was two old nuns in habits, its a question of what to do in the situation. That he gave any discription is good, but is hardly relevent. None of that matters, if he said they were 12 year olds with supersoakers (the high powered backpack kind, of course) there is still no reason to insult someone. That's the point.
Why do you feel the need to insult someone who disagrees with you? Why do you feel the need to insult someone because of a situation they described? Insulting basically screams that you are a troll...and when its for no reason, it makes you a special troll. Try to contribute something when you post. Read a post/thread, and add to the discussion...don't take one post and rip on the person because of how they said something or how you percieve them to be.
Sorry, i don't do smiley faces, and I do hope this will be my last post discussing things with you. You defend yourself to what I said by not talking about what I said. It doesn't matter if it was two old nuns in habits, its a question of what to do in the situation. That he gave any discription is good, but is hardly relevent. None of that matters, if he said they were 12 year olds with supersoakers (the high powered backpack kind, of course) there is still no reason to insult someone. That's the point.
Why do you feel the need to insult someone who disagrees with you? Why do you feel the need to insult someone because of a situation they described? Insulting basically screams that you are a troll...and when its for no reason, it makes you a special troll. Try to contribute something when you post. Read a post/thread, and add to the discussion...don't take one post and rip on the person because of how they said something or how you percieve them to be.
RoSar1:
Ever been mugged? Held up? Jacked? Whatever you want to call it?
If you have, you would recognize from the way the incident was described that there were real and clear warning signs present that the poster heeded. It was a good thing that he did.
Far too frequently, we go about our lives and fail to realize that even on the most beautiful day, that the world can turn into a vicious and nasty place in a split second.
I deal with some of those "ideal" kids you talk about. I always try to give the benefit of the doubt, and have had great interactions with teenagers and adolescents in my jurisdiction. But I have also seen what happend when these teens turn into super-predators--they can and do strike with the shock and impact of a great white shark homing in on a seal. There is almost an art in it--peace and calm in one instant, deadly violence in the next.
Don't believe me? Watch the tape of the security officer in Las Vegas being attacked by about 15 or 20 youths. Without warning, he was swarmed and beaten almost senseless by a mob of predators--for no apparent reason that I could see. There was NOTHING he could to to defend himself, and NOTHING he could have done to prevent it. Note well that the beating only took about 8 to 10 seconds.
I have seen plenty of young guys and girls that are good people, and will be the backbone of our next generation. I have also seen the punkers, straight edgers, bangers, homeboyz and others who I will not turn my back on for a second.
It is obvious from your post that you are possibly a teenager or younger. Do you fall into one of those categories?
Ever been mugged? Held up? Jacked? Whatever you want to call it?
If you have, you would recognize from the way the incident was described that there were real and clear warning signs present that the poster heeded. It was a good thing that he did.
Far too frequently, we go about our lives and fail to realize that even on the most beautiful day, that the world can turn into a vicious and nasty place in a split second.
I deal with some of those "ideal" kids you talk about. I always try to give the benefit of the doubt, and have had great interactions with teenagers and adolescents in my jurisdiction. But I have also seen what happend when these teens turn into super-predators--they can and do strike with the shock and impact of a great white shark homing in on a seal. There is almost an art in it--peace and calm in one instant, deadly violence in the next.
Don't believe me? Watch the tape of the security officer in Las Vegas being attacked by about 15 or 20 youths. Without warning, he was swarmed and beaten almost senseless by a mob of predators--for no apparent reason that I could see. There was NOTHING he could to to defend himself, and NOTHING he could have done to prevent it. Note well that the beating only took about 8 to 10 seconds.
I have seen plenty of young guys and girls that are good people, and will be the backbone of our next generation. I have also seen the punkers, straight edgers, bangers, homeboyz and others who I will not turn my back on for a second.
It is obvious from your post that you are possibly a teenager or younger. Do you fall into one of those categories?
I have been in a similar situation myself. And I do not think that it is "old ladyish" at all to think that 2 hoodlum looking people (regardless of age), who Mica said obviously did not belong in the area, show up as you are pulling into your parking spot and take up position exactly where they know you must pass by. I think it shows situational awareness.
I definatley would not retreat when about to enter my home, that would show them you are scared of them and make you a bigger target.
I definatley would not retreat when about to enter my home, that would show them you are scared of them and make you a bigger target.
My point is that it's pretty irrelevant that he mentioned their age. Somehow he came to the logic that since most people that age don't live there they would have no reason to ever go there, which is false.
Bigfatts, now these 2 kids were "hoodlum" looking? Gee you must have been there because the original post didn't mention that. I also find it rather arrogant that Mica(original poster) would have the nerve to tell them to move along because they didn't belong there, according to him. Who do you think you are? You aren't a cop, and even if you were they aren't breaking the law. You have a CCW, you're not James Bond.
Bigfatts, now these 2 kids were "hoodlum" looking? Gee you must have been there because the original post didn't mention that. I also find it rather arrogant that Mica(original poster) would have the nerve to tell them to move along because they didn't belong there, according to him. Who do you think you are? You aren't a cop, and even if you were they aren't breaking the law. You have a CCW, you're not James Bond.
Now you say your point is that he shouldn't have mentioned their age? If that is your new reason for joining, it basically contradicts your first two posts. It seems now that you have been called out, you have a point and a reason for an insult. If you point had been that the age of the people involved didn't matter, why not say that? He described the situation, VERY WELL, and gave estimates and details.
Does it offend you that he gave their age? Does the fact he guessed their age offend you? Because he guessed their age he is a 70 year old woman?
Your argument makes no sense. At least in your most recent post you actually gave a reason, instead of just getting personal for no reason. Basically, your most recent post explains you just stopped by to insult mica.
I was correct when I figured you would then turn on me. Wow, big surprise, thats basically all I've seen you do on these boards, its very rare you actually contribute.
Read the first post completely where he describes them more so later in the post, I would agree with Bigfatts that they were "hoodlum" looking. Nice to know that mica is now a 70 year old lady who is arrogant because where he lives and has property rights he spoke up when someone was on the property that had no right to be there. I guess if someone is in the common area of where I live, they don't live here, I'm arrogant for asking them to move on. Even though its within my rights since I am a legal owner of the common area, just as mica is of common area where he lives. They weren't on public property, there's a difference. Before your new defense is "its a free country, they can go where they want" private property is just that, private property.
Keep on creating new reasons for having insulted mica. While its cute that you are trying to validate the reason you insulted mica, your reasons so far make no sense. Basically, your new arguments show without question that you had no reason for posting other than to insult someone for no reason. Keep creating new reasons for insulting mica, or reasons I'm wrong and I'll keep showing why your reasons don't work by.....actually making sense.
Does it offend you that he gave their age? Does the fact he guessed their age offend you? Because he guessed their age he is a 70 year old woman?
Your argument makes no sense. At least in your most recent post you actually gave a reason, instead of just getting personal for no reason. Basically, your most recent post explains you just stopped by to insult mica.
I was correct when I figured you would then turn on me. Wow, big surprise, thats basically all I've seen you do on these boards, its very rare you actually contribute.
Read the first post completely where he describes them more so later in the post, I would agree with Bigfatts that they were "hoodlum" looking. Nice to know that mica is now a 70 year old lady who is arrogant because where he lives and has property rights he spoke up when someone was on the property that had no right to be there. I guess if someone is in the common area of where I live, they don't live here, I'm arrogant for asking them to move on. Even though its within my rights since I am a legal owner of the common area, just as mica is of common area where he lives. They weren't on public property, there's a difference. Before your new defense is "its a free country, they can go where they want" private property is just that, private property.
Keep on creating new reasons for having insulted mica. While its cute that you are trying to validate the reason you insulted mica, your reasons so far make no sense. Basically, your new arguments show without question that you had no reason for posting other than to insult someone for no reason. Keep creating new reasons for insulting mica, or reasons I'm wrong and I'll keep showing why your reasons don't work by.....actually making sense.
Capt. Charlie
Moderator Emeritus
Anybody recognize this? It's the opening lines to the original post, by Mica. Perhaps we can get back to that?
Capt, you are correct.
Mica, sorry about hijacking your thread when i responded to rosa, I had no intention of it going on further. Anyway, I agree you did a great thing with the open carry...being in virginia myself I love an open carry state. A few others had what may have been wiser actions.
I think of them all, staying in your car and calling 911 would be the best action, that is if you have a cell phone. That way you could eyeball their location in case they ducked in a hallway if a cop car pulled up, also if they turned their attention to another resident you would have been there in a support/witness/relay to police role.
Anyway, you made wise choices...the only different thing I would have done would be to walk with nothing in hand(unless a pipe wrench was handy to trasport to the house for plumbing in case the pistol didn't fix the leak) because anything in your hand is something in the way. If parking in another location and not passing directly between them was an option that would be good, but it didn't sound like that was an option.
Mica, sorry about hijacking your thread when i responded to rosa, I had no intention of it going on further. Anyway, I agree you did a great thing with the open carry...being in virginia myself I love an open carry state. A few others had what may have been wiser actions.
I think of them all, staying in your car and calling 911 would be the best action, that is if you have a cell phone. That way you could eyeball their location in case they ducked in a hallway if a cop car pulled up, also if they turned their attention to another resident you would have been there in a support/witness/relay to police role.
Anyway, you made wise choices...the only different thing I would have done would be to walk with nothing in hand(unless a pipe wrench was handy to trasport to the house for plumbing in case the pistol didn't fix the leak) because anything in your hand is something in the way. If parking in another location and not passing directly between them was an option that would be good, but it didn't sound like that was an option.
geronimo13
New member
The mind is an overactive thing for sure. I don't think being afraid would be possible if you were armed?, and sufficiently distanced. I wouldn't have carried anything in, come back for them later, and have your hands free. Talk to them in a casual way to accertain thier intentions (you can tell in their voice). And pass on one side, excuse yourself and push one to the other's side. Take picture with a cell phone and make a fake call while still in your car. If you show fear then a victim you will be. If they were really going to attack you, knifing you as you passed and stealing your gun would have been easy. They were just kids, out chillin as it played out. Take some aikido classes you might get more confidence, and enjoy it- I know I do.
Rosar, I don't put every single detail in the post otherwise it would be extremely long. But you are way off the mark.
I KNOW my community I KNOW when someone looks out of place here. Period!!! If you like it or not overly layered clothing, baggie panted teens are out of place where I live, so yes, they will draw an extra look from me. They were at my building with no good intentions.
I never saw them before and I haven't seen them since. Talked to the condo manager and she told me on 6 occasions in the last month 'teens'(that don't LIVE here) had been arrested in our community.
I KNOW my community I KNOW when someone looks out of place here. Period!!! If you like it or not overly layered clothing, baggie panted teens are out of place where I live, so yes, they will draw an extra look from me. They were at my building with no good intentions.
I never saw them before and I haven't seen them since. Talked to the condo manager and she told me on 6 occasions in the last month 'teens'(that don't LIVE here) had been arrested in our community.