Re: Switzerland, the freest nation on earth

one interesting point about modern Switzerland is that it, along with Kuwait, has the highest per capita income in the world. not surprisingly, both countries have unusual economies; one is based on being the lowest-cost oil producer in the world, the other on having the most stable (and discrete) banking system. both industries bring essentially windfall profits into the economy. the other big industries in Switzerland, such as timepieces and chocolate, are luxury items which also provide abnormal profits. nice to have, but by definition not a scheme that other countries can easily emulate.

one thing we Americans often forget is that nations that appear to be highly civilized do not always value freedoms. as a Finnish acquantance once put it, "if you become a Finnish citizen, you become a Lutheran. You have no choice, there are no other churches there."

still, what I like about the Swiss system (along with their excellent education system; their high-school graduates can actually READ!) is that they still have that respect for the common man doing his part. in the U.S., an average guy who chases down a mugger will be reviled by many. folks who are in the Reserves or Guard seem to be viewed as a little strange. a nation which values citizen-soldiers has an immesurable strength.
 
I'll throw in a bit about comparison of societies: The Swiss have a comparatively static society. Sprawling, brawling societies which are noted for changes (for good or ill) tend to be more innovative, with more opportunities for more of their people.

Switzerland is noted primarily for the cuckoo clock...

Ciao, Art
 
Art, at least Switzerland isnt noted for electing a reprobate like Big Comrade to 2 terms as president. I agree,it takes a " sprawling" nation to elect such a person as WJC as president,not for one term, but for two. The Swiss may be "dull,whatever that means, but they are not stupid. Ill take a cuckoo clock anyday over these clowns in Washington.
 
Another neat thing about the Swiss--at the least the ones I know--is their sense of community. Swiss Citizenship is one of the toughest to obtain--you have to prove you can contribute something to their society--but once you're in, you are in for life. You can denounce your Swiss citizenship, but they won't denounce you. Also, the region you live in effectively "adopts" you, and should anything happen to you, that region will take up the burden to support you and/or your family.

As far as restrictions on religion goes--hogwash. The country gave us Ulrich Zwingli (the Swiss Luther) for crying out loud, and served as a base for Erasmus for a while--they know the importance of those freedoms. Most of the ones I know there are Christian, but not of a mainstream denomination.

Here's a bit of Swiss trivia for you--the square flag has to do with its military history. "Swiss Squares" were a formation used by those pikemen. Their effective use made them a formidable force.

RE: Guns--wow, a mini on sale. I'll have to look for one on the trip I'll be making this November :)

jth



------------------
Exodus 22:2 -- Biblical precedent for home defense.
 
The Swiss,I think, dont like to "water down" things like this country has been doing since the end of WWI. It looks like the old religious ways are kept and the Reformation still strong.While in the rest of Europe ,Christianity is unrecognizable and the nations are deep in socialist trappings. Likewise in this country, the churches are truly organized along government rules and humanism. a man like Billy Sunday couldnt speak today in any public place . he would be arrested or even killed by US authorities. And the once free Constitutional Republic is nearly dead and only need a official burying. I think the people who dont like the Swiss are jealous of perhaps the only truly free nation left in the world. Maybe they remember the time,before WWI ,when this country was afree nation where people could go about their business without fear from a beastly central authority.
 
We (America) already have restrictive immigration: My friend's fiancee is an educated German and she can't get in for nothing. Educated Europeans are not given immigration rights very often because some people are afraid they will take away skilled jobs. Uneducated people are given free right to walk in because they are no threat to the elite, they just do grunt work and keep prices down. That's great for now, but it will bite us in the butt later.

Before we feel to bad for people trying to get into America keep one thing in mind: We already legally immigrate more people into our country every year than ALL other countries in the world combined.

Come live on the border before you talk about our border policy.
 
I would like to add Finnland to the list of small and clean nations on this discussion.

We have progressive income taxvation up to 65%, Value added tax on most products is 22%, tax on motor vehicles is over 100% , 147% on motorcycles, 80%of price of gasoline is tax (95E ron oct. unleaded gas is aprox. 4,5 times the price in NJ).

BUT ! Social welfare and health services are very good, higher learning is practically free ($100 is the membership fee of the student union that includes free health services) this providing that one passes the entrance tests of the technical or normal universities.

Uneducated immigrates are not welcome and we (cladly) have such remarkably less than swedes. Educated (masters or higher) immigration is not considered as threath due to the high amount of educated population and is OK.

All weapons require permit but it is easily obtained providing that one is not mentally ill, has rational reason for the purchase of the weapon and doesn't have record of violence or drug related crime.

Firearm safety is usually acceptably good due to the mandatory military service that all men and voluntary women undergo.

Strangely this close society allso correlates
with switzerland with highest suicide rates of europe (no1 place varies annually with
Hungary that is btw only fennorelated language and nation in europe)

Funnily enough when ppl go nut in here (or switzerland) they don't mascare everyone they can like these recent cases in US but rather end their own lives in their homes.

Anyhow if one wants his children to grow in extremely sterile place and and pay murderous taxes this is the place to do it.

Gattling ;)
 
Red Bull, you have my sympathy living along the southern border. Its wide open now and if y2k does what i think it will do to Mexico, the Us will be so swamped with millions of Mexicans that the novel,Camp of the Saints,which described a theoretical invasion by millions of third worlders into Europe, will become a reality in the border area. Short of bringing our troops home now and fortifying the border, possible total collapse loams along our border when y2k hits Mexico. No one on mainstream will touch this scenario. Soon we may really, really envy the Swiss.
 
The Swiss - They can be the most pig-headed, single minded ... ah yes dear, of course dear ... as I was saying, the most firm and clear headed, rational people in the world. I should know, I've been married to one for nearly thirty years.

Visiting relatives there a while back, went to a shooting range in the basement of a huge supermarket. One entered through a small door that had a sign on it in four languages warning that it could be dangerous... own risk etc. Sure enough someone was spraying a steel target at about twenty yards, full auto with a SIG Stgw 90, shrapnel flying around and enough smoke and lead in suspension to fill the EPA's quota for a year.

Shortly after, staying in a hotel, a little sign in the room (in four languages of course) warned it was 'requested not to flush the water closet after 10 PM and before 8 AM'...) That's the Swiss attitude - do what you like unless it bothers someone else without their consent.

A little over 700 years ago most of Europe was ruled by one imperial family, the Hapsburgs. Small communities in the Alps held out - almost impossible to deploy troops against them and the passes between them would be closed most of the year by their lousy winter weather. In fact they'd have very little to do with each other, until a Hapsburg chieftain tried to collect taxes from one: they slaughtered the revenooer and sent his people packing. Fearing reprisals this village figured it could use some help from its neighbors (who in any case could get into the same situation) so, on August 1st. 1291 three of them swore a pact - "Should any outsider mess with any on of them, the others would come to their aid; meanwhile, each would mind their own business". Over the centuries, more communities (called 'cantons') joined this agreement, under the same terms. Each has a huge autonomy, can even secede if its people decide by a majority vote.

They are now 26, over an area about the size of Maryland, nearly 8 million people in three large language groups. The only time they were overrun was by the worlds first 'modern' army, Napoleon's. It forced them into a closer federation bringing at least the military organization under a central control. A monarchy they are not - and perhaps the only 'old' country that never has been. In fact they are probably the 'votingest' people in the world. Everything is put to the vote. They would even vote on the weather if it would do them any good. Some of the older cantons vote by a show of hands at public gatherings. As a point of interest, citizens often wear a small sword to these events: being armed represents being a 'free citizen'.

By the way, not worried much this far south of the Rio Grande about Y2K - nothing works very well anyway :

Hasta pronto

Peter Knight (aka El Chimango Pete)
 
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