Rattlesnake questions?

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Well, I have to throw in with Gopher .45 on this one. I was an amateur herpetologist myself for quite awhile, and kept quite a few hot (venemous) species ... including rattlers from all over the U.S.

And, every year, a good friend still comes to AZ to collect snakes for the zoo back in his home state.

Snakes, almost always, just want to be left alone. If possible, just walk away ... better for you and the critter. To be honest, IMHO hunters hurt their reputation when they kill anything other than the goal of their hunt. I find it especially ironic when folks kill every predator (including rattlers) that they find, and then complain about the number of varmints (gophers, squirrels, rabbits ...) damaging their land. Seems foolish to me.

If you decide to capture a rattler, don't use the 'forked stick' approach. First, practice on a nonvenomous snake - a mistake is no big deal with those. And, unless you have a 'snake stick', just find a sturdy branch that has sort of an 'L' at the bottom - rather like a golf putter. And, press gently if you don't want to hurt the critter. The bones in their head are supposedly fairly fragile.

For me, I just admire 'em when I'm lucky enough to catch a glimpse. They're amazing creatures, and like many animals, the world would be less interesting without them.

Take care. Regards from AZ

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited May 07, 2000).]
 
I work for a boys camp over the summers in the CA Sierra's. I have discovered over the years there is absolutely no reason to kill snakes. I am definiatly guilty of such crimes, but as you get older you get wiser. 99% of the time the snake is going to want to head the other way from you. I have even come real close to stepping on them. They either just crawl away quietly or they start rattling and backing away, leaving me with a rather high heart rate. Only once did I have a snake come my way. I don't know how to explain it, but he crawled up right underneath the log I was sitting on. I jumped a good ten feet. I think he must have thought me or the fire I was standing by must have the biggest ground squirrel heat signature he has ever had on his scanner.

I never get to carry while I am hiking, but it is really easy to hold the snake down by the head with a stick and then your boot or shoe and simply cut off his head. Why waste your ammo. Snakes are by no means a formidable adversary to us. So why kill em? They just like to eat vermin and go their own way. If they are in your camp, just use a stick and haul out of there a couple hundred yards and let em be.

By the way, the only time I ever cooked one up, he wasn't worth the effort. Not enough meat on them bones.
 
El Rojo, ya been messin' with those little wussy Kaliforny baby-rattle snakes. :)

Get off in the brush country southwest of San Antonio, on toward the Rio. They have rattlers down there that don't need poison; they'll break your knee with the strike!

Some guys on our old deer lease near Uvalde killed a 6'-6" rattler and brought him in to play "show and tell" at camp. Now, my hands are long; I reach 9-1/2" from tip of thumb to tip of "The" finger. Encircling that snake's body with both hands was a snug fit.

Tastes like chicken...

:), Art
 
gfunny when i lived in AZ we had a HUGE scouting jamboree.. lots of adults worried about the kids safty with all the rattlers.. after two days the rangers were bitching about the scouts endangering the rattlers.

We used to actively look for diamond backs and gila monsters in the sonora desert and while they can be dangerous they are best left alone.

Snakes back east 9water moccasins, cottonmouths, copperheads seem much more aggressive than the average rattler in my opinion.. and backeast.. (well in WV) in late may the place is crawling (pun intended) with snakes. A water snake can be easily misidentified as a copperhead/moccasin/etc as they can be veryfat and very territorial.

I'd rather leave them be too.. but I carry snakeshot in WV. In colorado.. you just have to know how to deal with snakebite and watch out for "sunning rocks" where rattlesnakes might be laying around catching rays.
 
Having read about snakes as a kid, I was concerned about the venomous kind. I have come close to stepping on vipers and had often wished to take an air gun to them.

Now I live in a state with few venomous snakes but they are still a concern. I am curious what kind of footwear and pants to don in snake coutry in case they see me first and strike? Are denim and sneakers enough or should I wear something more sturdy?

Also, would hitting their spine around the middle be enough to disable them or head shots are necessary? I am not likely to have anything better than a ten-shot .22 or a 5-shot .38 when afield

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Oleg "peacemonger" Volk

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
Oleg,

Check around your local sporting goods stores and look for "Snake-Chaps". They're chaps that strap onto your legs, covering the tops of your boots, all the way up to the crotch. They are made of out of a durable material that snakes can't bite through.

Their downfall -- They're a bit bulky, stiff, and extremely hot when worn during the warmer months. But which is the better case scenario? Dead or uncomfortable?

About shot placement on the snake. I believe if a person has to kill something, is should be done in a humane manner. So any other shot besides the headshot, would not be an option.

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Oleg, I've been running loose in snake country for darned near 60 years, and I guess my feet just automatically take me where snakes aren't. :) Anyway, I usually wear the lightest, crepe-soled 10" boot I can find. Something like a Russell Birdhunter, or a lightweight pull-on work-type boot.

The main thing is to learn how to walk. You learn to look down briefly; take two to four steps; look down again...This helps you avoid noisy things like sticks and twigs, as well as snakes. You avoid loose rocks, and most always have a safe place for your next step.

I have hunted with folks who sound like a herd of shod horses going through the brush--amazing so much noise could come from one fella!

And avoid hard cloth such as new Levis. The "weep, weep" when going through brush wakes up every critter within a couple of hundred yards. Nylon is bad, as in the very protective but very noisy nylon-faced "brush pants". Great for quail hunting; bad for walking for deer.

If you just have to walk through tall grass in snaky country, probing with a walking stick helps. Let the stick wake him up, not your foot...

By and large, it's an over-rated danger. It just takes common sense and a reasonable amount of watchfulness...

Have fun, Art
 
Oleg, honest buddy ... save your ammo. It just isn't necessary. And, Art is so right - this danger is way over-rated. Hell, years ago we'd sometimes hunt all weekend for a rattlesnake to catch, and not see one. And, we were looking hard for them, and knew what we were doing.

I agree about Texas - that's where the biggest Western Diamondbacks are found (Crotalus atrox). The biggest rattlers in the U.S. are in the southeast, mainly Florida - the Eastern Diamondback (Crotalus adamanteus). It was an Eastern Diamondback that bit me once, due to my own stupidity ... fortunately, it was a 'dry' bite. As I recall, about 25% of the time a poisonous snake doesn't even inject venom.

Come out to AZ sometime and visit me - we'll introduce you properly to the local hot stuff. ;)

Take care. Regards from AZ
 
I'm with you guys on the snake problem and solutions here in the states. However, I used to live in Africa and later in India and in both countries the only good snake is a dead one. Our species in the USA are relatively non-aggressive. But I'd love to take anyone who advocates "leave them alone" to Africa with me to bivouac. Don't get me wrong, here that tactic works mostly, there it will just get you killed.

I've been on march and literally watched as a giant tree snake droped out of a tree and lassoed himself around a guys neck to try to strangle him. Even better is in India where snakes will go after a man in groups as he walks down the road attacking with what seems like strategy. Several will lay across the road and "stand up" when they sense him close by. If he turns to walk away, he will find his path blocked by several more behind him. Very eerie. I've seen these things first hand and because of that, anytime I see a snake that is identifiable as "hot" I kill it. I'd rather spend more time with my .223 chasing groundhogs on my land because of killing their main predator than mourning my boy because a cottonmouth bit him at our pond. As for the mice, well, I've got one of the meanest cats around. Petronius would take on a coyote if given the chance.

We live on some nice land, but have a major problem with snakes because of all the water and prey living on the land. My family are all required to go armed anytime they walk more than 25 feet away from the house. My fiance carries a PPK with her, I carry my trusty 226 and my ward, Andy, carries either a S&W .22 or his Colt Commander .45 and even though I agree with Art's post about pistol calibre shot being hard to use, each mag is loaded in an alternate setup. Hydrashok and SnakeShot alternating with the last one hardball. I know, its a bit wierd but is works. We get groundhogs and snakes on a nearly daily basis. We take their carcasses and toss them into the woods where a lone coyote lives. I think he was an alpha that got deposed, he's pretty old and mangy. I've decided to leave him alone. He's gobbles up whatever is thrown out there. He's still feral but does trust us a bit.



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damiano
 
Coyotes don't have alphas. Unlike wolves, coyotes typically only come together to breed and of course mothers with young can be spotted as well. Otherwise, they tend to spend the rest of their adult time as solitary individuals.
 
Am I the only one who has had bad rattlesnake dreams ever since they were 5 years old? These are about the worst nightmares I have. The snakes are always chasing me and out to do me great harm. One of the last ones I had, the snake up and bit onto my "male organ" through my pants (I had to add pants part beause you all would have asked why my organ was out around a snake and I didn't want to listen to all of your crap! ;) ). What a horrible dream that was.

The Indian Viper story would make me a firm believer in always having a tactical shotgun with me in that area. I figure about 8, 7 1/2's loaded up in there would discourage the snakes, or at least let me take a few of them with me.
 
Obviously, El Rojo, you need treatment of the "total immersion" sort. You need to go to a snake farm and spend the day in the middle of the crawly-critters--or until you're just totally unconcerned about them, whichever change-of-mind method hits first.

Maybe get a baby boa as a pet. Carry it around with you--it would make a wonderful conversation piece! You could explain your psychiatric problems to beautiful young women and get lots of sympathy! Hey, this is the new age, ain't it? Folks s'posed to help each other get over problems? You could always explain it's your psychic advisor on picking stocks--and you're now a millionaire on account of it!

Just trying to help,

Art

"I like to help folks out; I just don't always know where they came in."
 
I do not have an aversion to snakes. Just last week I pulled a slightly mashed king snake out of the road in the middle of the night. He was still alive, he just had half of his lower intestine hanging out his arse. I can ever get really close to rattlesnakes without problems. It is just my dreams haunt me. There are rattlesnakes always defying their natural speed chasing after me. Many of the dreams I get bitten over and over, and as I mentioned, once right on my tip!

When will they ever end?
 
" They are made of out of a durable material that snakes can't bite through."

There have been a few cases of secondary envenomation of person repairing motorcycle tire and getting snagged by fang protruding through to the inside of the tire.

As a group, the eastern diamondback is the largest poisonous North American snake. There is one exception hanging on a wall of a navy SERE school building near Warner Hot Springs Kalifornia. Western Diamondback without head, tad over eight feet long and well over a foot across the skin. Allowing for stretch, that is still one big un.

Good idea to collect the culprit if bitten. Most U.S. pit vipers are haemotoxic but the diamondbacks are both haemotoxic and neurotoxic. Better chance of appropriate treatment if the critter is identified. Mojave green rattler appearantly also has a different toxin load with attendant specific treatment requirement.

I believe in lettin em be, unless they get in the house, then we have a problem. In my area of AZ hills we have mojave greens which have a hair trigger and let you know when you are intruding into their zone. The more dangerous seems to be the mild mannered black, which will let you or your horse step on it before rattlin, then buzz and strike.

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Sam I am, grn egs n packin

Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
 
Not that snakes have done me any harm, but I find myself wishing to go after then with a shotgun. Maybe when I am in AZ I'd have a chance to get a few. Can always pretend they are something really nasty like Reno & pals :)
 
This thresd started with a gun question.....

An old timer in South Carolina told me all you had to dowas stick your rifle or shotgun bbl down in the snakes direction and the snake would do the "sighting" for you.

Art, you ever heard of this?

I have had the opportunity to try this in south Texas on several occasions. It works. I must suggest that you consider the lenghth of the snake....as related to the length of your arm and gun.

270, 7mm mag and 338 all seem to work well. You just stick it in close to their head, about a foot or two and the snake lines itself up on the bbl. Squeeze trigger, dead, no head snake.

The effect of a shotgun with the same method is quite profound......

So, don't worry with the hand gun.

Huntschool

Single shot shooters only shoot once.
 
Well, the rattler--or any pit viper--zeroes in on heat. Their two heat-seeking pits function as do our eyes, providing a sort of depth perception.

A gun-barrel, being probably warmer than the air, gives them a heat source to zero in on.

An instance where a survival mechanism can be contra-survival.

:), Art
 
D-Max SA revolver in .45 Colt/.410. The piece will chamber a 3" shell but for the close work a 2.5" does the trick neatly. I keep the modified choke in it. At 8' with #8 shot it throws a 4" pattern. EOS (end of snake)

I try to avoid them but if they make it into camp they are mine.

Rick

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I prefer armed combat to unarmed combat. It's easier on the knuckles.
 
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