Rapid fire

T

timothy75

New member
I was just wondering when a defensive shooting would require rapid firing upon an assailant. Is a person expected to asses the threat shot by shot? And could a person get in trouble for shooting an attacker too many times? I know its a broad question but would like to get some of your thoughts. Thanks
 
yep

If I'm not mistaken, it would be a case of excessive force if you put a large number of rounds downrange at a BG. Not to mention how much danger you are potentially causing for innocent bystanders. It probably varies from state to state.
 
Sorry for not giving you the answer you want, but I suggest reading the book "the stranger" by Albert Camus. Its not very long and a big part of the book has to do with him shooting a person in self defense.



Its just one of my favorite books, sorry for advertising it.
 
timothy75,

My take on your question would be that you should shoot until the threat no longer is a threat. For example, if the bad guy is down and incapacitated, but still alive after one shot, I would stop shooting at that point. However, if it takes 6 rounds to make the bad guy drop, then six it would be. This of course is after you've made sure the bad guy is really a threat to your life and is positively threatening you.

However, there are people on this forum that have forgotten more about these situations than I'll ever know, so before you go shooting anyone, wait until you've heard from them. :D

MDman,

I've read "The Stranger" by Albert Camus, and you are correct. It is an excellent book and should be a must read for nearly anyone.

Skunk
 
YUP....Shoot as many rounds, as quickly as safely possible until the threat stops. THEN stop shooting. Your to SHOOT TO STOP THE THREAT not shoot to kill. Subtle difference but a CRITICAL one to your post incident freedom.

The 'failure to stop' action is 2 chest, 1 head....still coming.....2 chest, 1 head.....still coming.....and so on. Properly performed takes 3 bullets to take effect. Silhouette practice this A LOT with your SD ammo not just your cheaper target ammo.
 
The short answer is that a defensive situation requires rapid fire every time. Putting lead on the target quickly is the primary concern. It is what will save your life more than any other skill or tactic. Shoot until the threat is removed, don't assess the effect of the shots. Keep shooting until he stops, reload and cover him until the police arrive.
 
In a defensive situation and you have one assailant, perhaps 2 bullets is enough especially if you used a .45 caliber pistol or even a lower caliber if placed on the right target. What is our purpose in shooting an assailant, to stop his agression or to kill him on the spot? for me rapid fire to an assailant is not that necessary.

Thanks
 
Very rarely is an invader alone.

I'm a firm believer of "Shoot till they dont move."
Take cover and listen for anyone else.

If the BG can move an arm and I hear someone else, I'm giving the guy on the ground another.

They are the offender in your home.
If you fear for your life still, there is no excessive force.

This is why landlords are required to give Notice of Entry. By Law.

For on the open streets?
You should never pull a gun unless there is a physical threat given.
If you fear for your life, take cover and pull it out. "Cover" may consist of just running side to side.
If you fear for your life, again, don't hesitate to take them down fully, and wait for any other threat.
Most BG's on the street are with someone else.
 
At my age of 49 right now, I can say I have come accross to several bad guys, be a civilian or a bad eggs in the mil or le. I had le and mil friends and still shooting actively. There were people that if they describe in the preparation of using their guns be it pistol or rifle it seems that there are so much deadly forces in the streets or everywhere in their community. In my whole time of having a pistol, I found myself that the only use of my guns is shooting them at the ranges. I carry but it is just for the sake for self defense in case of unexpected assailant to my very person, but I have never been ecountered such BGs trying to take my life or hurt me physically in the streets of Metro Manila except when I was a 20 years old that I experienced being a target of a mad military man in my province which I had shared in this forum when I was still working in the middle east that was 16 years ago. But then, that time I never have interest in guns. Unlike now, I feel sick if I don't have a gun, that even it is expensive to have one here I am trying to save just to have one 1911 and one M16 AR.

My point in sharing this one is that, to my analysis it is nice to have a carry pistol and house guns but having them especially for carry and having the intention to kill or pump a bullets to a simple thief, snatchers, and to an arrogant bystanders on the street, I will never used my carry pistol to an unarmed asaillant. Just my personal opinion.

This is the shy_man now who is 49 years old and still crazy of playing with pistols and rifles.
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for me rapid fire to an assailant is not that necessary.
Click to expand...

If you want to give yourself the best chance of survival against an armed assailent with you only having a handgun you had better put a lot of lead into him ASAP. Handguns are anemic compared to HP rifles or shotguns so multiple hits are best. Plus the act of putting your adversary under duress is very important in reducing his ability to hit you.

My vote is fire as fast as you can make resonably well placed hits for the given range and target size. Stop when the treat is over and only when the threat is over.
 
Q. Why did you shoot him 17 times?
A. Because I shot him 16 times and he was still a threat.

Pretty much all you need to consider on the question of how many times to shoot
 
I consider emptying the mag to be excessive if you never check to assess the target during that time.

I carry a single stack 1911 as well.

I go for 3 or 4 shots on target and then slow enough to assess the target.

I also want to see if there are any other threats that I missed noticing.

In my last gun class the instructor said something similar and he carried a glock 17.

I basically want to make sure I survive the situation but I also don't see the need to empty a magazine into the target unless the threat just keeps coming.

Maybe it is just the movies for me but if I empty the magazine into a target that is turning or falling down I somewhat expect it to be noticed and I don't want to explain why I shot someone on the ground or with their back turned to me.

I am not about to say I am an expert. I hope to never find out what is needed in real life to stop a target.

But I think just planning to empty the gun might not be the best solution.
 
Beire, What if the threat is still holding a weapon. What if the guy falls but is still alive with his gun? You slow to asses the threat and he gets a lucky shot off. I was trained to fire AFAP until the threat is over.
 
"I was just wondering when a defensive shooting would require rapid firing upon an assailant. Is a person expected to asses the threat shot by shot?" "

This "shoot-look-shoot" doctrine is a great way to get yourself killed. Lurper had it right when he said

"a defensive situation requires rapid fire every time. Putting lead on the target quickly is the primary concern. It is what will save your life more than any other skill or tactic. Shoot until the threat is removed, don't assess the effect of the shots. Keep shooting until he stops, reload and cover him until the police arrive."
 
There are many different methods taught on this, such as double tap, two to the body and one to the head, etc... I was taught by my father, who was a police firearms instructor in the days of the revolver, to fire 3 center mass and check for a threat. If needed, 3 more then reload (on a revolver of course). I still practice the 3 and assess rule and feel good about it. I carry an XD 45 that has a higher capacity, but 3 is an effective number and should not damage you in court (unfortunately always a consideration) for excessive. The key to any of the methods is to PRACTICE. They have to be second nature. I always spend range time drawing and firing 3. It should be instinctive, whether it is a double tap or a triple.
 
Normal, After the first shot the bad guy tosses his gun away and you see this do you fire the other two as your father instructed?
 
My defensive practice, is to shoot 3 times as fast as I can to the center of
mass, using paper human target. I'll do this sequence about 20-30 times.

I'm satisfied if the 3 shots lands in the COM.

I'm in the learning stage and my defensive pistol at present is a Sig Sauer
226. I'm afraid at first that my first shot will miss, because of the
DA/SA difference. I know if it is SA only, my time will be faster.

So, God forbids, as a last resort, that's how I am programmed to do.
 
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