Range Etiquette

Patience??? The OP was a saint! After nicely explaining the rules to him ONCE (if there was no range master, which there obviously wasn't), the next time the idiot wondered down a live range I would have warned the others shooting that this can't be tolerated and I (and possibly some others) would have jumped down the jerk's throat like a live grenade, told him to pack up his stuff and get out. Obviously, in this case, all of the other shooters knew the rules and followed them. Good shooters + 1 idiot = idiot must leave, not those following the rules. Good shooter + lots of idiots = Good shooter must find somewhere else to shoot.

be glad it wasn't the other way 'round - with the old guy shooting when you went down range to change a target.
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The guy described by the OP very well could have done that next - you have no way of feeling safe with an idiot like that around!
 
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I (and possibly some others) would have jumped down the jerk's throat like a live grenade, told him to pack up his stuff and get out.
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....and how do you do that at a public range? Who elects you to be the range officer at a range that has no range officer? How do you as a private citizen legally kick someone off from public land? These are the regs at the public shooting range the OP was shooting at.

Use only approved targets. On the ARP approved targets are: cardboard targets, paper targets, manufactured metallic targets (metal targets specifically designed for firearms), or manufactured thrown-type clay targets (clay pigeons). Please note: exploding targets are not permitted.

Follow the four fundamental rules of firearm safety:

Treat every gun as if as if it is loaded.
Never let the muzzle of a firearm point at anything you do not intend to shoot.
Keep your finger off of the trigger until your sights are on the target and you are ready to shoot.
Always be sure of your target and what is beyond.

Make sure that you are not in an area specifically closed to shooting.
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The small public ranges I shoot at have similar rules. They expect folks act in an intelligent, responsible and safe manner. Some old guys are not used to shooting with others, nor do they like to take orders from folks that call them dumb***. Sugar still catches more flies than vinegar.
 
If he did it a second or third time, then maybe it would be a good idea to have his range bag all packed for him by the time he got back from the target stands.

Assuming, of course, that he left the gun on the firing line when he went downrange. No point in provoking an obviously armed man :eek:

Bart Noir
Who very much appreciates being a private member at a range run by real police officers. No screwing around there!
 
If there's no range officer/master to boot this guy, then I'd leave before something happens.

Too bad you're more than an hour from Ft. Carson, Cheyenne Mountain Shooting Complex is awesome on safety.

They'd have a boot up this guy's ass so fast there wouldn't be a second time walking down a hot range.
 
I live in the same area as the OP.This is the
Pawnee National Grasslands.While its a little different than plain BLM,the idea was to preserve a portion of historic,pre-development grassland.Its Federal Public land.For the most part,you can shoot on it.That does not mean you can drive on it,you have to be a certain distance from a road,etc.Also ,some areas are closed.
For many years,there were some traditional ,informal places to shoot.No range,no berms...it was the general public being creative adapting to terrain,each party doing their own thing,all in a relatively chaotic fashion.
Ranchers,birdwatchers,local residents had issues with near misses.
I have not been out there in maybe 3 yrs.
To avert an impending disaster,the Mgt has designated a shooting area.I have not been there yet.
.There is no membership or RO.What is sad but true....some folks are capable of communicating ,co-operating,and having a reasonably safe range.
And some people are stuck on "Don't follow leaders,everything is a whizzing contest,and defiance is more important than safety.
I do not know the answer,but if we as shooters cannot live up to the responsibility,I'm quite sure the Feds can/will justify ending shooting on the Grasslands.Re-designate it a park.
It might be good to post a Ranger phone number folks can call,but that will generate statistics.I dunno.
 
Do you guys think I made an unreasonable request?

I was at an outdoor shooting range that did not have a rangemaster. I was on the far right side of the firing line, and there is a berm blocking me, on my left, from going around a long continuous bench (meaning you can't go in between the benches). This means that I have to go around the back of everyone and then cross in front of everyone's bench, on the left of me, to get to my target.

I asked for a cease fire, and I see a guy at my far left shooting his semi auto pistol. He simple puts it down when I ask for a cease fire. I ask him to open the action for me, as I can tell that the gun is obviously still loaded and chambered with a round because he was just shooting it. I tell him that I have to cross his barrel, and there is probably a round in the chamber.

He says, "Dude, don't worry, it's on safety". I tell him to please open the action regardless. He says, I promise it's on safety.

I just leave rather than argue with the guy, and I sure as hell am not going to cross his barrel.

What do you guys do in such a circumstance? Would anyone here have just crossed the guy's barrel to go change targets?
 
Our request was reasonable and his response was foolish. The whole point of clearing the chamber and opening the action is to insure that no accidents are possible. One would have to pick up a fire arm rechamber a round to put anyone in danger. I'm kind of surprised that no one else spoke up.
 
Originally posted by HiBC:

There is no membership or RO.What is sad but true....some folks are capable of communicating ,co-operating,and having a reasonably safe range.
And some people are stuck on "Don't follow leaders,everything is a whizzing contest,and defiance is more important than safety.
I do not know the answer,but if we as shooters cannot live up to the responsibility,I'm quite sure the Feds can/will justify ending shooting on the Grasslands.Re-designate it a park.
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Most of the ranges in the rural area I live in, are run by small gun/conservation/sportsman clubs. While you must be a member or pay a small yearly "range dues" they have no regular supervision or ROs and are self regulated using the basic rules of gun safety, similar to the one in the OP. Most of the year these ranges are only very lightly used, with three exceptions. The weekly trap/skeet league night, the days when there is a fund raiser event shoot or the two weeks prior to the gun deer season. Most regulars avoid the latter because of those folks with little firearms experience that flock to these ranges in droves to quickly sight in their deer rifles. They are always in a hurry and generally don't bring their own targets or enough ammo to properly sight in. Many times they are rude and are only concerned with getting the gun sighted in so they can go back home and watch the game. They don't have time to wait for others to shoot or get done shooting because the kickoff is in 30 minutes. Then they are frustrated because the scope they bought at Wally-world and mounted themselves without bore-sighting has come loose and they are now down to 4 rounds with a scope that is not yet on paper. Many are having problems remembering how to load their gun, insert the mag or which way the little lever needs to be to be on "safe" because the gun is new or they have not handled it since last year when it was new. If you go up and ask to see their membership card or "range pass" they look at you like a deer in the headlights and mumble under their breath. While odds are they have neither, it's hard to get them to leave without making an scene. You either need a lot of patience or you need to leave. As a complete stranger with no authority, shouting commands and calling them a "dumb***" to their face, is not going to make things better. Most of those local ranges have a free "sight in clinic" one weekend a year to help avoid this. But it doesn't eliminate it.

Then there's the guys wearin' the tactical pants with ten fully loaded 30 round mags that takes 15 minutes to empty. This after after taking 15 minutes to load while others have been done shooting for 12 minutes and waiting. For Him. Again. This is the guy that generally designates himself to be the RO and shouts commands to the other 2 folks there like a Drill Sergeant. Altho he just bought his range pass at the tavern next door that day, he acts like he owns the place and it's his rules only that apply. Don't matter that the other two guys helped establish the range, work on it several times a year and are only shooting three rounds at a time for groups. He has not yelled "Cease fire" or "range cold" yet. Odds are, they are gonna be "dumb***s because they want to check their targets before he tells the world it's time. Odds are the other two are thinkin' someone's a dumb*** too.

Public means just that. It means you will need to deal with the public and the variety of skills, intelligence and experience that comes with it. It happens everywhere in the world, not just a shooting ranges. You can either try to help in a polite and conscientious way or you can call folks "dumb***". You can either accept the fact that there will be occasional unpleasant encounters when dealing with the public and deal with it, or you can become frustrated, call folks names and whine about it on Facebook and other Social Media. Me, I try to help politely and if that don't work, I walk away and wait for another day. This is why I have my own private range.

Go to the range with the masses and you become just another one of them.
 
Originaly posted by olddav:

The whole point of clearing the chamber and opening the action is to insure that no accidents are possible. One would have to pick up a fire arm rechamber a round to put anyone in danger.
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With the exception of a hang-fire, wouldn't one have to pick the gun up off the table and put their finger on the trigger in order to put anyone in danger? I wonder how many folks have a loaded gun in a bedside table that may be pointed at a neighbors house somewhere in the distance. Is that unsafe? I wonder how many folks with a CWC, have folks unknowingly cross their barrels. Should we all be required to CWC a unloaded firearm with the action open so we don't sweep someone and endanger them even tho there is a zero chance of the gun going off? Could the OP had waited until the one other shooter was done shooting and avoid this? Isn't that standard procedure also or is it standard procedure to yell cease fire whenever you are the first one done and expect others to quit shooting half way thru their first mag? Courtesy and safety goes both ways, within reason.

Me, as long as the guys gun was on the table and on safe, would have no problem crossing his barrel, it ain't gonna go off on it's own, or I would have politely waited till he was done shooting and had a empty gun. The gun, as long as it remains on the table is not much of a threat. Anytime someone feels they are in an unsafe situation, they should leave....period. IOWs the OP correctly did what he felt was right. Sometimes the hassle is not worth the time.
 
Generally,at an informal range,as new folks show up or as folks get their group fired,it works pretty well to just keep your eyes open,and spend a minute to see what is going on.There will usually be cues,eye contact,etc.No need to interrupt someone in the middle of a magazine or group.

IMO,no need to call an immediate cease fire in the middle of a man's magazine.Let him finish.

At the same time,I can't agree that "on safe,round in chamber" is good enough.No range with any RO or membership gets run that way.

Empty,actions open,and hands off is the appropriate condition when folks go in front of the line,with everyone aware the range is cold.

And,this difference of opinion perfectly illustrates the problem.
As I mentioned,I have gone to exactly the same location the OP wrote about.

Its about a 100mile round trip from town,and its not too easy to let one jerk ruin the day.IMO,Ranger cell phone # should be posted,and unsafe behavior called in.
Public should not mean the biggest jerk runs everyone else off.
 
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"Safety on". How "safe" is it ?? I've repaired a number of pistols that had a problem --Load , safety on , but then as you disengage the safety it fires !! Other types of safety problems can occur also !

It's "gun on the bench, unloaded , action open, step away from the bench "
 
buck460XVR
I will agree with you on one point. If you feel unsafe, leave immediately. Once you ask for consideration and it is refused further debate is unwise. Offering additional info/opinion to someone that is committed to their position could be waste of time and invite an argument and at my age (50's) I am no longer interested in any conflict that is not necessary.
We all have different levels of risk we are willing to accept, and the loaded firearm on a bench while someone is down range exceeds mine.
 
buck460xvr said:
With the exception of a hang-fire, wouldn't one have to pick the gun up off the table and put their finger on the trigger in order to put anyone in danger?
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I can't count how many times I've had to ask people on the firing line at a public range NOT to handle their guns while others are downrange, especially people who don't shoot much. Seems like they always want to show something to their buddy, adjust the sights, wipe it off, etc, etc etc. Just mentioning to them that they shouldn't be handling the weapon with someone downrange has so far always resulted in the gun being placed on the bench and an immediate apology.

Doesn't bother me at all to point it out to them, but many people won't say anything.

Chamber empty, mags out, and action open just adds another layer of safety when you're out in front of the barrels and some dumb*** has a brain fart and starts handling their weapon.
 
Chamber empty, mags out, and action open just adds another layer of safety when you're out in front of the barrels and some dumb*** has a brain fart and starts handling their weapon.
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Yup. I belong to, and do most of my shooting at, a private club where I personally know and socialize with most of the members, who are for the most part very experienced and highly competent shooters. In addition to guns down, mags out, chambers empty, and actions open, we also require highly visible open bolt (or empty chamber, if you like) indicators to be in place and strictly enforce no handling of guns, mags, ammo, or anything else while there are people downrange. The acting RSO - which could be any one of us, as we don't have designated RSOs - will examine the entire line before giving the "cold range" command. We have a red line painted about ten feet back from from the shooting benches and expect folks to be standing behind the line before going downrange, and to return to behind the line and stay there until the "range is hot" command is given.

Excessive? Maybe so, but it's really no more effort than being sloppy about safety and none of us has any problem with it. As another plus, I've brought non-shooters, some of them marginal anti-gun types, to the range and seen their attitude toward guns and gun enthusiasts noticeably improved after witnessing how much trouble we go to to ensure safety.
 
When no SRSO {staff range safety officer} is present on our range...ceasefires are usually called by a "gentlemen's agreement."
On our range: AGC at Marriottsville...the rules are
Any loaded firearm on/off the firing pad --- during a ceasefire --- is an unsafe scenario. Also, any exposed firearm {unless the gun is placed on the gun rack} that does not have the chamber open, magazine removed, empty chamber indicator flag inserted --- during a ceasefire --- is also an unsafe technique. All muzzleloaders must have the muzzles pointed upward during a ceasefire.

If a loaded gun is placed on a firing bench during a ceasefire...a few things could happen {besides a cook-off}: If the loaded firearm is not only on the firing bench, but also placed in a open pistol case or on top/inside of a rifle/pistol case --- a gust {approx. 17mph} of wind --- can blow the case and firearm off the table. I know...because I've seen it happen.

A range cat {we used to have one at our range}, could hop on the firing table and knock the gun off the table. Or a kid --- that has a fascination with guns --- could stroll-up to the firearm and start to play with it; not to mention any shooter who does not have his mind on safety during a ceasefire.

Our SRSO's, also have the option to keep everybody off the concrete firing pad during a ceasefire.
 
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Originally posted byErno86

If a loaded gun is placed on a firing bench during a ceasefire...a few things could happen {besides a cook-off}: If the loaded firearm is not only on the firing bench, but also placed in a open pistol case or on top/inside of a rifle/pistol case --- a gust {approx. 17mph} of wind --- can blow the case and firearm off the table. I know...because I've seen it happen.

A range cat {we used to have one at our range}, could hop on the firing table and knock the gun off the table. Or a kid --- that has a fascination with guns --- could stroll-up to the firearm and start to play with it; not to mention any shooter who does not have his mind on safety during a ceasefire.
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A cook-off? Seriously? If a round will get to the temperatures needed to "cook-off"(approx 300 degrees) inside a firearm in the few minutes it takes someone to go downrange and check a target, odds are folks there at the range won't be alive anyway.......

The author said nutting about the gun being placed dangerously and precariously on a table in high winds. Nor did he say anything about kids running wild or feral cat attacks. Seems funny your range would have such stringent rules for guns, but then allow kids and cats to run/roam aimlessly and unsupervised down the firing line. Seems kinda ironic.

This thread is about etiquette, not the rules at your range, or the average user there that needs such stringent rules. If the author in the subsequent post would have been polite and allowed the one other shooter at the range to finish shooting before he called cease fire, there would not have been an issue either. Etiquette goes both ways. That author says nuttin' about any other unsafe actions, nor did he say the other shooter was handling the firearm. Just the opposite. While not correct form at your range, if the four basic rules of gun safety were being practiced, I see no difference than hunting beside the guy or having him sitting behind me on the bus while he was CWC. Now iffin it was 300 degrees on that bus I might be worried. Want a range with stringent rules and ROs, go and pay those fees and go there. Go to a public range that is free or relatively cheap, that is self governed using the common sense approach and the 4 basic rules of safety, and that's what you are going to get. If others are there you feel are unsafe, go home. If they are being safe and following the 4 basic rules of gun safety, and/or any other posted rules, then don't try and implement your own rules on them. That's etiquette.
 
Range etiquette is based on safety rules, and we occasionally have full auto machinegun fire; so a cook-off is possible. Just because we have range rules, does not always prevent the unforeseen too happen --- like wind blowing a loaded? gun off a firing table --- while it was resting on top of a gun case. So a loaded firearm, while resting on a firing bench on a gun range during a ceasefire, is a range safety issue with me; and I will have words with those kind of perp's.

Think safety.
 
buck,I'm getting the impression that you might be the "that guy" the OP was inspired by.

Are you seriously suggesting,if you were at a public shooting area,and someone asked you in a polite,repectful way"Sir,would you mind clearing your pistol before we go downrange" that you would refuse?
 
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