Range ammo...weird Wolf rule

M

madmag

New member
Went shooting today at one of my local in-door ranges. Shooting my P90. 45ACP. At the end of my session I was just shopping their supply of .45ACP ammo, and on the shelf along with all the other range ammo was Wolf steel case. Nothing strange about that, but when I asked the price the very young guy behind the counter said it was $19 per 50, but I could not use it on the range, and anyway it was bad for guns in general. Now I know about wolf ammo and some of the complaints. I have shot thousands of rounds in my three .45's and my mini-14. But he laid a new one one me. He said the casings would chip (damage) the concrete floors and you could get sparks that are dangerous.:eek:

OK, the store was busy and I did not take the time to get someone with real knowledge to argue this guys ideas. Not to mention they have ammo on their shelf that they say you cannot use on their own range.

Anyway, new one to me. Next time I will take the time to talk to someone with actual experience.:D
 
This is from wikipedia---
Steel-jacketed bullets

"Not only the cases of Wolf rifle ammo are steel. Most of Wolf's rifle cartridges use steel jacketed bullets, though they look like copper jacketed. The copper exterior of the bullet is only about .005 inch thick, (about twice the thickness of a sheet of paper) with a steel jacket underneath about 1/32 inch thick. Only the cartridges in the yellow and black boxes, which have become almost unavailable as of 2/08, have real copper jackets. The core of the steel jacketeted bullets, sometimes marked "bimetal", are lead. Some rifle ranges have started magnet testing shooter's ammunition to determine if bullets are steel jacketed. The steel is said to be more likely to ricochet, and also to cause sparks on impact, which can be a problem when shooting in dry grassland, or forest areas."
 
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I'd bet the range rule isn't about sparks on the concrete or any safety issue - it's about them not wanting to sort through discarded casings to get to the brass ones (which they can sell, the steel and aluminum ones, not so much). I suspect they probably ask customers not to use standard Blazer ammunition too!
 
I also suspect the range does not want to sort the steel casings from the brass. I shoot 9x18 rounds and my Brown Bear and Wolf steel cased never pass their test and all of my brass ammo (S&B, Winchester, Focchi) always pass. Is it just a coincidence?
 
It's all about the brass. The liability and safety thing is just a happy coincidence. Steel is worthless. Aluminum is worth something but not much, and brass is worth the most of anything they can recycle. They can't recycle the slugs at a very high price because the copper and lead have to be seperated, plus there's some brass in some of the slugs, and on top of that steel would make the slugs near worthless.

All they'd have to do is get a powerful magnet, but that's more labor on their part.
 
X3 on the steel casings, they just dont want to sort them out. if its somehow "BAD" ammo they shouldn't sell it. if they sell it use it on their range or spend your money somewhere where they don't lie to you.
 
Well, I guess they don't want the ammo on the range due to sorting issues, but like others have said, why sell it at the counter.:confused:

The steel is said to be more likely to ricochet, and also to cause sparks on impact, which can be a problem when shooting in dry grassland, or forest areas.
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Yes, but this is an indoor range.
 
Quote: "Yes, but this is an indoor range."

Yes, but not every shooter is your cookie-cutter standard safety expert. I've seen people shoot at the roof, the floor, the side walls, all over the place(they get trigger happy). And with rounds that ricochet more, I don't wanna be in that room. Sad that they police the ones who follow the rules in order to police the ones that don't.
 
Well, for all of you who blame the ranges for not wanting to sort brass- why do mine ban Wolf, but allow Blazer aluminum? Also, my police pistol league allows Blazer, but not Wolf. Sorry- it's not just a question of not wanting to sort out non-salable or reloadable "brass". Just my, um, 3 cents!:p

Chuck
 
Some people believe the steel cases will wear extractors faster. That's one reason Wolf also makes polymer cased ammo. Some also believe the steel jacketed ammo wears out barrels faster. I will shoot Wolf ammo in limited amounts and not in my top line guns.
 
it is soooo about the brass. any range that allows blazer aluminum, i would say it is because shiny silver is a lot easier to separate than the Wolf ammo - which is dark and can be mistaken as brass if just quickly looking.

and the reason they sell it is because they want to make money. most indoor ranges sell rifle ammo but wont let you chew up their backstop with it. they can make any rule they want but 99% of the time the reason comes down to $$$ vs some idea of safety.

no problems from me, i take almost every piece of brass home with me - even the .22. i will reload the rest but will sell the .22 for scrap eventually.
 
Most indoor ranges use kevlar bullet traps. Wolf steel cored ammo will penetrate light kevlar. Kevlar is expensive. Why do you think they'd want you messing up their expensive bullet traps?
 
The orginal statement was not about steel jacket bullets doing damage, but about ejected steel cartridge cases damaging the concrete floor. Sounds like nonsense to me and the brass sounds like the real reason.

Does the range ban picking up brass during "cease fire" and/or require that revolver empties be dropped on the floor rather than kept?

Jim
 
I've seen people shoot at the roof, the floor, the side walls, all over the place(they get trigger happy).
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True. But I this is one of the best controlled ranges I have used. Having said that, I have lots of range horror stories I can tell.

Some people believe the steel cases will wear extractors faster.
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I know, but I have never seen that as a factor on my guns. The early Wolf lacquer coated did give me problems on my mini-14, but now they have the poly (or whatever you call it) coating and it seems just fine.
 
The orginal statement was not about steel jacket bullets doing damage, but about ejected steel cartridge cases damaging the concrete floor. Sounds like nonsense to me and the brass sounds like the real reason.
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The original statement by the employee is nonsense. But I imagine it arose because the countermonkey heard his boss say something once about doing damage and filled in the blanks with BS. Ever done the experiment where you line 10 people up and whisper something in the ear of one and ask the 10th person to tell you what was said? Same thing here I suspect.

Local indoor range here doesn't allow Wolf ammo due to the damage to the bullet traps themselves. Steel casings don't matter as they allow aluminum cased ammo and they expect that everyone polices their own brass and separates it by shotgun shells, brass, and aluminum. Adding a steel bin wouldn't be hard, but the cases aren't the issue.

Again, bullet traps are expensive........dig a little deeper with someone really in the know at the range and I bet they'll confirm that's the reason.
 
Local indoor range here doesn't allow Wolf ammo due to the damage to the bullet traps themselves.
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The backstop here seems to be a slanted hill with a sand filler, then concrete block walls. Not saying there is no trap, but I don't see any. I do shoot at another indoor range that obviously has traps.

BTW, the range in question does allow shotgun (buck only), and the other range with traps does not. Don't know what that means, just info. And they don't ask if it's plated buckshot or not. And you can use 3.5" 12ga. if you want.......I don't ever want. I am not into self punishment.:eek: I did shoot my 20ga. with 2.75" today in additon to my .45.
 
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If it is about the salability of the cases (and it probably is), I can still see why they would allow Blazer aluminum and not Wolf steel. Even if they cannot be reloaded, I think that aluminum will have enough resale value as scrap that it would make it worth their while to collect it, whereas steel would not.
 
BTW, the range in question does allow shotgun (buck only), and the other range with traps does not. Don't know what that means, just info. And they don't ask if it's plated buckshot or not. And you can use 3.5" 12ga. if you want.......I don't ever want. I am not into self punishment. I did shoot my 20ga. with 2.75" today in additon to my .45.
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Range here with traps also allows shotgun up to and including slugs. Also no shell length restrictions. Handgun ammo is restricted to .44mag or less with nothing steel cored. No centerfire rifle ammo.

Maybe it is all about the salability of the cases in this particular case, but given the countermonkey's statement about damage I still suspect it's the steel cored bullets themselves they don't like.
 
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