Raising the age to purchase/own

This debate was triggered because one 19yo shot up his school with a legally purchased weapon. Now there's evidence that he wouldn't have been able to purchase that weapon if all the rules had been followed and all the facts had been known. Still, let's restrict everybody else's rights just in case. You do realize that everybody else includes all the young women under 21 as well? "If she's under 21 she's unarmed" is not a message I support.
 
I believe the age to purchase handguns at a gun store should be lowered to 18 as a response to the gun grabbers if they want to raise the age to 21 for long guns. And if it were possible there being no gun laws in existence only the BOR.
Compromising rights leads to defeat in the long term.
 
Been said above already several times... \\

I too am in the crowd of... What is a Constitutional ADULT in the USA?

16 to be emancipated in some states 17 or 18 in others
14 to marry in some states..16, 17 or 18 in others
18 to register for draft or decide to Enlist
18 to enter into binding contract
18 to buy a fire arm
as young as 15 to get a conditional drivers license
18 to drive a Explosives tractor Trailer with CDL
as young as 14 to be charged as an adult.. political angst driven by some very few heinous crimes
as young as 14 to (SELF) agree to abortion...some 16... and most 18 or over with out parent consent
as young as 5 to decide future gender
21 to buy a beer

Seems ..and I personally could wrap arms around 21 for MOST of this (NOT ALL INCLUSIVE) list

18 in military on face seems to be the biggest sticking point... BUT NO enlistee or Draftee is UNSUPERVISED ever

BUT to counter my own argument...
Drafted age 18 1973...but was ROTC.so immediat E-3 PFC...smarter than many so rapid promotion to E-4 Corporal at age 19 was that SUPERVISOR for a FA howitzer crew UNDER a E-5 section Chief who was a year older..age 20..the highest rank / age on my M102 105MM Howitzer..

yes theee was a E-7 Chief of Smoke...Old 30ish leader who answered to a an even older E-8 first sergeant 30ish...While still taking commands from a 2nd Lieutenant 21~23 or commander O-3 Captain...23~25

Point is even with a 18 year old in the Military... the argument seem to focus on THEY are supervised...true enough...but they are Supervise by quite a few also YOUNG citizens

jest something to think about
 
I'll give up voluntary enlistment being tied to voting / firearm ownership. However the draft should continue to be tied to it in my mind. No telling someone they are not a full citizen or that they cannot possess the means to effective self defense and then drafting them to use those means (and more) for national defense.
 
No Taxation Without Representation
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I'd like a check for all the sales, income, and excise tax I paid before 18.

A long time ago you couldn't own property until 18. Couldn't vote unless you owned property. Didn't pay taxes unless you owned property. Along the way all those ties to 18 were broken and now we have the system we have. My grandfather started driving on the road at 11. He had been driving on the farm before that.

I heard someone complaining their 16 year old hadn't been hired by McDonald's and was told it was because he didn't have any work experience. I thought that was impossible, but then remembered the last time I was in McDonald's the workers weren't HS kids like I remember 15 years ago. Most of them had more white hair than dark. Some of maturity is a process of learning. If HS kids can't get jobs...

I'd prefer to return to everything being tied to paying taxes.
 
How would raising the age to 21 work with the other possible forthcoming legislation regarding background checks for all transfers. How does a parent gift a rifle to their 15 year old son?
 
along the same line what do you do with the 18-20 year olds who already own the guns.. whoops instant over night criminal?
 
How would raising the age to 21 work with the other possible forthcoming legislation regarding background checks for all transfers. How does a parent gift a rifle to their 15 year old son?
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legally, the 15 year old can't own the rifle currently. I would have no problem with a required NICS check for any private sales/transfers. Pay a small shop $25 to run it and be done. Then we can finally say there is no LEGAL way to obtain a gun without a background check. Also will help a lot of small businesses.
 
I'm not advocating anything but, up until I retired 2 years ago, I was a high school band director and I worked with teenagers on a daily basis. A current 18 year old male is much less mature than an 18 yr old of 50 years ago. There a multitude of reasons for this but the biggest being the lack of a mature male model in their lives.
 
A current 18 year old male is much less mature than an 18 yr old of 50 years ago.
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I think we should avoid generalizations like this. There's plenty of smart mature kids out there today, and there were plenty of morons out there 50 years ago.

The difference is thanks to social media and technology the morons of today get attention much faster and on a larger scale than they did 50 years ago.
 
Each individual State has the right to legislate the following;

The age to get a drivers license.
The age to buy alcohol.
The age to buy a revolver/pistol/long rifle
The age to marry.

For this Forum, the age to own weapons is the main topic. The 2nd Amendment, to the best of my knowledge, is not being violated if a State changes the laws on the age to buy a weapon like Florida just did.
Now the problem for the 18/19/20 year old people is should they be grand fathered in or be re- screened ?? I personally feel that they should be re-screened because the background checks have more depth to it and mental health issues have more teeth to owning weapons.
 
Logic says that gun deaths should be treated as a disease.

Hmm....so is this disease hereditary? Is it spread via fungus, bacteria, or virus? How is it transmitted? Is it airborne, blood-borne, sexually transmitted, mosquito-borne, parasitic, etc.?

If it's a virus can we develop a vaccine?

If none of that applies, how do we "treat gun deaths like a disease?"

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If the age limit for purchasing a rifle were raised moderately--with exceptions for those serving in a branch of the military

That bit is discriminatory as not everyone 18 years old can join the military: physical fitness and health issues keep plenty of otherwise sane and trustworthy people out.
 
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Hmm....so is this disease hereditary? Is it spread via fungus, bacteria, or virus? How is it transmitted? Is it airborne, blood-borne, sexually transmitted, mosquito-borne, parasitic, etc.?
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I took it as more on the mental health/social science side of things, not the life science side. There's a reason that SOME people are willing to commit these terrible acts while the rest of us would never even think about it. My argument is we shouldn't be legislating for topics we don't scientifically understand. Unfortunately the government doesn't feel that way and rarely has in the past.
 
Maybe what we need to do is raise the minimum age to 21 for purchasing and possessing a smart phone! My goodness, what would the little darlings do? Maybe read books, get a part-time job, join clubs, and interact more with their families and friends....horrors!
 
Maybe what we need to do is raise the minimum age to 21 for purchasing and possessing a smart phone! My goodness, what would the little darlings do? Maybe read books, get a part-time job, join clubs, and interact more with their families and friends....horrors!
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I bet you used to walk to school and it was up hill both ways...
 
There's a reason that SOME people are willing to commit these terrible acts while the rest of us would never even think about it. My argument is we shouldn't be legislating for topics we don't scientifically understand
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As most of us would never consider murder I'm not sure this argument works.
 
As most of us would never consider murder I'm not sure this argument works.
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I think it supports it? Moral of the story is the majority of us would never take a life outside of a legally justifiable situation. Some will. We need to understand the difference in thought before we can fix it.
 
To a man, everyone I know...Teacher, store/shop owner, LEO, or Carry civilian...Never desires to be Rambo and shoot em all up...me included

As relates to age related laws .... too many things in many experiences as we grow and learn demand some scope of reference... This requires each of us to learn and base decisions on wisdom and experience....many NOT teachable... but rather livable experiences

A kid in a war torn environment or inner city gang violence area has a much different perspective by age 18 than some safe never a indecent suburban or rural community

Wife and I over 30 years lived in a wide variety of safe to very unsafe environments... raised our kids in these environments... their kids tho do not have the same perspective as grand parents or parents....cushy safe rural life in a relatively violence free community

I am sure we could make arguments IN GENERAL about age related "maturity" to grant or restrict certain Privileges or Rights...and truth is I think we should do this

I just detest the hypocrisy of many of our CURRENT privileges and Rights granted vs deniged

But that is experience and wisdom based..... see ---I was DRAFTED when age to drink was 18..... later BEFORE I was 21 THEY changed the LAW.... and PIST me off genuinely

I am fairly sure the first time I voted I had no real clue on the political implication of MY VOTE...For McGovern
 
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