Maybe I'm just a little cranky from lack of sleep. (Maybe not.) This is becoming a way too typical experience for me, but I was struck once again this year (about the 10th running) by the assortment of idiots the deer season seems to spawn in my normally peaceful Northern Minnesota hometown. Every time I walk into a gun store at this time of year, there seems to be this really interesting collection of people that seem like they are the byproduct of about three generations of in breeding and high on testosterone. (Just a small minority, mind you, but VERY noticable.) IMHO, all the gun control wackos would need for their evidence is a video from one of these stores. (I'm really not a prude, but envisioning any number of these guys with anything more lethal than a pea shooter kind of sobers me up.) Have I just been living among the left wing wackos in Minneapolis too long?
Raggin on Certain Deer Hunters
- Thread starter MLT
- Start date
Sigh,
No, they are everywhere. Here they accumulate at gunshows dragging in junk guns and beating on other people in the aisles with said guns in order to look at the latest in deercocaine and other "suitable" sporting aids to attempt to decimate the deer population. Don't even get me started on what they are like at a public gun range......
No, they are everywhere. Here they accumulate at gunshows dragging in junk guns and beating on other people in the aisles with said guns in order to look at the latest in deercocaine and other "suitable" sporting aids to attempt to decimate the deer population. Don't even get me started on what they are like at a public gun range......
The Other Side
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As a newbie gun owner (owned guns less than one year) I've been the weirdo you hear, and thought about the same about you on the other side. Let me explain.
1. Self taught , newbie gun owners without "old-tradition gun friends" have to pick it up as fast and best they can. For me that meant read, lurk here and elsewhere, and search for a local gun club. Give mercy to guys trying to fit in to your tight club with zero experience. One observation I stand by : computer techs are alot more accepting of gun owning computer newbies than the reverse.
2. Newbie gun owners shoot paper first, until they can learn hunting. Paper lends itself to funner shooting than "SUB MOA SUPER SHOT TOUGH GUY (forget learning this newbie scum) GETS IT RIGHT EVERY TIME". They shoot what is fun while they (hopefully) listen carefully and learn and try and make gun friends. Sometimes you get sick of this constant bullcrap and just do what you know...shoot the target as fast and as accurate as you can.
I guess I could go on with the newbie to not-newbie experience. I did it totally alone, with no help from range braggerts who knew much and imparted little. I read books for 4 months before I even took my new AR to the empty range to shoot my first bullet. If I counted every hostile look from the "idiot hunter" community, I would throw up. I had better safety than any hunters that appeared in the stall next to me for 3 solid hours, and better accuracy too.
I don't mean this as insulting to MLT or H&K. I've lurked alot of knowledge from their posts, and I know not of whom they talk. From a gun newbie who changed from "scared of guns (age 30)" to "punches paper every weekend (age 31)" I know that sincere, well meaning newbies sound very stupid at the start. Try and understand for some new gun owners, there is no tradition, no "passing on of knowledge". And darn if we don't make some stupid social mistakes.
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As a newbie gun owner (owned guns less than one year) I've been the weirdo you hear, and thought about the same about you on the other side. Let me explain.
1. Self taught , newbie gun owners without "old-tradition gun friends" have to pick it up as fast and best they can. For me that meant read, lurk here and elsewhere, and search for a local gun club. Give mercy to guys trying to fit in to your tight club with zero experience. One observation I stand by : computer techs are alot more accepting of gun owning computer newbies than the reverse.
2. Newbie gun owners shoot paper first, until they can learn hunting. Paper lends itself to funner shooting than "SUB MOA SUPER SHOT TOUGH GUY (forget learning this newbie scum) GETS IT RIGHT EVERY TIME". They shoot what is fun while they (hopefully) listen carefully and learn and try and make gun friends. Sometimes you get sick of this constant bullcrap and just do what you know...shoot the target as fast and as accurate as you can.
I guess I could go on with the newbie to not-newbie experience. I did it totally alone, with no help from range braggerts who knew much and imparted little. I read books for 4 months before I even took my new AR to the empty range to shoot my first bullet. If I counted every hostile look from the "idiot hunter" community, I would throw up. I had better safety than any hunters that appeared in the stall next to me for 3 solid hours, and better accuracy too.
I don't mean this as insulting to MLT or H&K. I've lurked alot of knowledge from their posts, and I know not of whom they talk. From a gun newbie who changed from "scared of guns (age 30)" to "punches paper every weekend (age 31)" I know that sincere, well meaning newbies sound very stupid at the start. Try and understand for some new gun owners, there is no tradition, no "passing on of knowledge". And darn if we don't make some stupid social mistakes.
Ozzie,
I kinda thought they meant the loud-mouth overbearing, dangerous nitwits who have been (mis)handling guns for years and think "hunting" is shooting anything that moves! But I sure know what you mean about being a "newbie".
I had only one mentor in the U.S. and he died last February. Like you, I go alone to the range. I've found the old timers more than willing to answer my questions. In fact, some of them talk forestry and mining engineering to teach me how to build a clock! (I only wanted to know what time it was.
)
Like you, I learned much from books and magazines (the Air Force sure didn't teach me squat about guns!!). Then I asked real-world shooters about what I'd read. (THAT made for some interesting discussions! Whew!)
Then I'd go and try it on my own.
I hope you find a qualified, patient mentor. Ahem, maybe somebody from TFL?
I kinda thought they meant the loud-mouth overbearing, dangerous nitwits who have been (mis)handling guns for years and think "hunting" is shooting anything that moves! But I sure know what you mean about being a "newbie".
I had only one mentor in the U.S. and he died last February. Like you, I go alone to the range. I've found the old timers more than willing to answer my questions. In fact, some of them talk forestry and mining engineering to teach me how to build a clock! (I only wanted to know what time it was.
)Like you, I learned much from books and magazines (the Air Force sure didn't teach me squat about guns!!). Then I asked real-world shooters about what I'd read. (THAT made for some interesting discussions! Whew!)
Then I'd go and try it on my own.
I hope you find a qualified, patient mentor. Ahem, maybe somebody from TFL?
Bruce from West Oz
New member
Next year, we're to have the "official opening" of our new range. We intend to make it a media affair by inviting a high-profile personality to fire the symbolic first.
On Sunday, I looked at some of our Club members.
Yes, I saw them the way the media would -- some overweight, ill-dressed, missing teeth, some with tats, b-r-o-a-d Aussie accents. And I thought how the media would crucify them as rednecks.
Then I realised how much each and every one of those people meant to me. They are my friends, and there isn't one of them I wouldn't trust my family to. In fact, I'd be proud to have some of them look after my family. They are all good people, some not too educated -- yes, so what? They have good hearts, and the biggest, ugliest and fiercest of them all I know has a heart of pure gold. He is a "gentle giant", some 6'6" tall and heavily built -- but I've seen him take a little kid's hand in his mitt and look after that kid -- and the kids all love him.
So what am I saying? Just this -- yes there are some jerks who own guns (more's the pity), who give us all a bad name -- and I'm sure they're the ones you saw.
But the poxy media don't care -- they would just as soon focus on the fact my mate the gentle giant doesn't wear his part-dentures as they would that people love him and trust him and respect him.
Let the media judge a book by its cover -- let us not fall into the same trap.
Make sure the ones we scorn are deserving of it. And when we do uncover those jerks, let's be there to make sure they and they alone get the blame.
B
On Sunday, I looked at some of our Club members.
Yes, I saw them the way the media would -- some overweight, ill-dressed, missing teeth, some with tats, b-r-o-a-d Aussie accents. And I thought how the media would crucify them as rednecks.
Then I realised how much each and every one of those people meant to me. They are my friends, and there isn't one of them I wouldn't trust my family to. In fact, I'd be proud to have some of them look after my family. They are all good people, some not too educated -- yes, so what? They have good hearts, and the biggest, ugliest and fiercest of them all I know has a heart of pure gold. He is a "gentle giant", some 6'6" tall and heavily built -- but I've seen him take a little kid's hand in his mitt and look after that kid -- and the kids all love him.
So what am I saying? Just this -- yes there are some jerks who own guns (more's the pity), who give us all a bad name -- and I'm sure they're the ones you saw.
But the poxy media don't care -- they would just as soon focus on the fact my mate the gentle giant doesn't wear his part-dentures as they would that people love him and trust him and respect him.
Let the media judge a book by its cover -- let us not fall into the same trap.
Make sure the ones we scorn are deserving of it. And when we do uncover those jerks, let's be there to make sure they and they alone get the blame.
B
MLT,
Like every group, the hunting community unfortunately has its share of "mouth breathers".
For the most part hunters are courteous and friendly but there are those of whom you speak. I know the type-They don't touch their gun until a few days before the season, if that. They "store" their gun, uncleaned, in a corner of the basement, zipped up in a wet case. They litter and they start blasting away at any deer they see no matter what type of shot they have.
And finally they know everything there is about hunting and guns.
On the bright side these are the same idiots that fall out of trees, shoot themselves on accident, and drown because they look up in the sky trying to figure out where the rain is coming from. Natural selection generally takes care of them!
Ozzie, it sounds to me like you are doing just fine on your own. You will benefit greatly though if you can find someone with more experience with guns. Usually I find at my range most people are more than willing to help if you ask but it sounds like that may not be the case where you shoot. Keep looking, they should not be hard to find!
Good luck!
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I Love My Country, But I Fear My Government!
Like every group, the hunting community unfortunately has its share of "mouth breathers".
For the most part hunters are courteous and friendly but there are those of whom you speak. I know the type-They don't touch their gun until a few days before the season, if that. They "store" their gun, uncleaned, in a corner of the basement, zipped up in a wet case. They litter and they start blasting away at any deer they see no matter what type of shot they have.
And finally they know everything there is about hunting and guns.On the bright side these are the same idiots that fall out of trees, shoot themselves on accident, and drown because they look up in the sky trying to figure out where the rain is coming from.
Natural selection generally takes care of them!Ozzie, it sounds to me like you are doing just fine on your own. You will benefit greatly though if you can find someone with more experience with guns. Usually I find at my range most people are more than willing to help if you ask but it sounds like that may not be the case where you shoot. Keep looking, they should not be hard to find!
Good luck!
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I Love My Country, But I Fear My Government!
Ed Brunner
New member
I was born and raised in the best deer hunting part of Pennsylvania and we used to comment much the same on "Pittsburgh Hunters". The problem wasn't that they were from Pittsburgh, but that they lacked a lot of basic knowledge on hunting and particularly gun safety.
For some strange reason a lot of cows had big red ribbons tied on them for the duration of deer season.
One of my high school buddied had a "hunter" come up to him in the woods and asked him to load his Winchester 94 for him. My friend asked why he didnt do it himself. The guy said his son loaded it for him before he left Pittsburgh and he had already shot all those bullets. Semper Fi
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Better days to be,
Ed
For some strange reason a lot of cows had big red ribbons tied on them for the duration of deer season.
One of my high school buddied had a "hunter" come up to him in the woods and asked him to load his Winchester 94 for him. My friend asked why he didnt do it himself. The guy said his son loaded it for him before he left Pittsburgh and he had already shot all those bullets. Semper Fi
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Better days to be,
Ed
Mike in VA
New member
Ozzie - You hang in there, it sounds like you're doing fine. You seem to have your head on straight and you are aware of what you don't know and are taking your time and being diligent in your pursuit of gun knowledge (and welcome to TFL, BTW).
I think what MLT is referring to is "Buck Fever". Though it is generally believed to afflict just city boys (and girls), the truth is, anyone can be infected. All it takes is a predisposition to believe that you can substitute money (expensive gear) for skill (& practice) and common sense (good safety practices) and the inability to be able to recognize the presence of other intelligence in the generally vicinity (i.e. or anywhere on Earth). They don't know what they don't know, you can't tell them a thing, and they are dangerous to themselves and others. They will shoot at anything that moves (they are the reason I no longer hunt (aside from being a bit overweight, out of shape and with a bad foot) and stay out of the woods this time of year).
I'm sure others have lots of good 'stupid hunter stories', but they do give us all a bad name, and after the anti's get tired of harping on hadgunners, they'll pick up on these clowns as good example of bad exmples.
Sorry for the rambling rant, but I didn't want you to think that you're a problem or not welcome. Everyone here was a newbie at some point, and you're the kind of guy we need in our ranks as a responsible gun owner. I just got back into shooting about 2 yrs ago, and like you, I didn't have a 'gun daddy' to bring me a long, but I've found a wealth of knowledge and encouragement here, so I hope you'll stick around and encourage other newbies to 'come on down'. Take care, M2
I think what MLT is referring to is "Buck Fever". Though it is generally believed to afflict just city boys (and girls), the truth is, anyone can be infected. All it takes is a predisposition to believe that you can substitute money (expensive gear) for skill (& practice) and common sense (good safety practices) and the inability to be able to recognize the presence of other intelligence in the generally vicinity (i.e. or anywhere on Earth). They don't know what they don't know, you can't tell them a thing, and they are dangerous to themselves and others. They will shoot at anything that moves (they are the reason I no longer hunt (aside from being a bit overweight, out of shape and with a bad foot) and stay out of the woods this time of year).
I'm sure others have lots of good 'stupid hunter stories', but they do give us all a bad name, and after the anti's get tired of harping on hadgunners, they'll pick up on these clowns as good example of bad exmples.
Sorry for the rambling rant, but I didn't want you to think that you're a problem or not welcome. Everyone here was a newbie at some point, and you're the kind of guy we need in our ranks as a responsible gun owner. I just got back into shooting about 2 yrs ago, and like you, I didn't have a 'gun daddy' to bring me a long, but I've found a wealth of knowledge and encouragement here, so I hope you'll stick around and encourage other newbies to 'come on down'. Take care, M2
It's so close to the truth it's not even funny. Here in So. CA there aren't too many experienced hunters but plenty of once a year, "Ahm gonna shoot me a deer, huh huh" types.
I've actually been shot at during a hunt. Have you ever seen a bright fluorescent deer? Apparently this guy had.
Anyway, to make a long story short, I only bowhunt now in So. CA.
I've actually been shot at during a hunt. Have you ever seen a bright fluorescent deer? Apparently this guy had.
Anyway, to make a long story short, I only bowhunt now in So. CA.
Ozzie,
No, you clearly are not the "type" I am referring to. That "type" would not be nearly as articulate as you. No problem being a "newbie" (as you say); you are going at it exactly the right way, and I would have no fear in hunting in an adjacent parcel to yours.
"Buck fever" is only one of attributes of this interesting set of sub-humanity. Typically, the machismo outpaces the brains (if any!) by a factor of a hundred, and even if they weren't so damned dangerous, they give us a really bad name. Clearly, these people are the easy focus of the anti-gun/anti-hunting elements of our society -- not the vast majority of responsible hunters and sports shooters out there.
By the way, Ozzie, the typical sportsmen among us would be only too happy to help you out and impart their knowledge, wisdom, etiquette, safe practices, etc., to somebody new such as yourself. It's in all of our very best interests to do so.
Bruce from West Oz,
You're absolutely right. I didn't mean to sound elitist, and do not equate virtue (in this sense) with the ability to qualify for a national merit scholarship. We clearly need to stand up and defend our true friends.
You rightly point out the disconnect between book intelligence on the one hand and judgment/virtue/common sense on the other. Few if any of my closest friends are "GQ" material either.
[This message has been edited by MLT (edited November 08, 1999).]
No, you clearly are not the "type" I am referring to. That "type" would not be nearly as articulate as you. No problem being a "newbie" (as you say); you are going at it exactly the right way, and I would have no fear in hunting in an adjacent parcel to yours.
"Buck fever" is only one of attributes of this interesting set of sub-humanity. Typically, the machismo outpaces the brains (if any!) by a factor of a hundred, and even if they weren't so damned dangerous, they give us a really bad name. Clearly, these people are the easy focus of the anti-gun/anti-hunting elements of our society -- not the vast majority of responsible hunters and sports shooters out there.
By the way, Ozzie, the typical sportsmen among us would be only too happy to help you out and impart their knowledge, wisdom, etiquette, safe practices, etc., to somebody new such as yourself. It's in all of our very best interests to do so.
Bruce from West Oz,
You're absolutely right. I didn't mean to sound elitist, and do not equate virtue (in this sense) with the ability to qualify for a national merit scholarship. We clearly need to stand up and defend our true friends.
You rightly point out the disconnect between book intelligence on the one hand and judgment/virtue/common sense on the other. Few if any of my closest friends are "GQ" material either.
[This message has been edited by MLT (edited November 08, 1999).]
My brother inlaw and I refer to these people as the Rock people. The have thick heads and their IQ is lower than a box of.
Ozzie223
I don't mind newbie questions but I detest know it all answers from people who people who are knowlegeless. Let them spew they just show their ignorance. If the old shooters will not talk to you well it their sport their trying to kill. The newbies and kids are the future to shooting and if we dont bring new people to our sport it will die.
Ozzie223
I don't mind newbie questions but I detest know it all answers from people who people who are knowlegeless. Let them spew they just show their ignorance. If the old shooters will not talk to you well it their sport their trying to kill. The newbies and kids are the future to shooting and if we dont bring new people to our sport it will die.
Futo!
Shame on you! Pickin' on dem poooor widdle birdies!
Once as a youngster, I shot a chipmunk - just because I could! Blew him clean out of a tree with a 16 ga shotgun.
I went to my innocent victim who was quite dead, of course. As I looked at that cute little critter I felt so absolutely horrible - like an assassin - that I vowed never again to shoot something "just because I could". And I haven't. It's been about 45 years.
I don't shoot living things unless they're a threat or for eating. I won't even shoot for the sake of a trophy. Just a personal "thing". I don't condemn the folks who do - it's just not for me.
Around me, songbirds are safe.
Shame on you! Pickin' on dem poooor widdle birdies!
Once as a youngster, I shot a chipmunk - just because I could! Blew him clean out of a tree with a 16 ga shotgun.
I went to my innocent victim who was quite dead, of course. As I looked at that cute little critter I felt so absolutely horrible - like an assassin - that I vowed never again to shoot something "just because I could". And I haven't. It's been about 45 years.
I don't shoot living things unless they're a threat or for eating. I won't even shoot for the sake of a trophy. Just a personal "thing". I don't condemn the folks who do - it's just not for me.
Around me, songbirds are safe.
MLT,
I take offense to your reference to generations of "inbreeding"!
Some of my fine friends in West Virginia take pride in the results of thier generational "inbreeding", as you call it. Some like to refer to it as "kissing cousins", others call it "family planning".
I wish one of your Minnesota neighbors would challenge a good 'ol WV banjo player to a duel. They'd whip your butt duelling banjos and not even crack a smile! I think most of us know the movie I'm talking about...haha, MLT.
Robert
PS: For YOUR information, I've had guys tell me that they've bagged more than one white tail without even seeing it........They hunt by sound.
I agree MLT. That's pretty inbred.
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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
[This message has been edited by EQUALIZER (edited November 08, 1999).]
I take offense to your reference to generations of "inbreeding"!
Some of my fine friends in West Virginia take pride in the results of thier generational "inbreeding", as you call it. Some like to refer to it as "kissing cousins", others call it "family planning".
I wish one of your Minnesota neighbors would challenge a good 'ol WV banjo player to a duel. They'd whip your butt duelling banjos and not even crack a smile! I think most of us know the movie I'm talking about...haha, MLT.
Robert
PS: For YOUR information, I've had guys tell me that they've bagged more than one white tail without even seeing it........They hunt by sound.
I agree MLT. That's pretty inbred.
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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
[This message has been edited by EQUALIZER (edited November 08, 1999).]
One of the things that gets my goat (just a figure of speech. Its really my neighbors goats that get killed), are the hunters that like to take a close look at me through thier scopes. Who ARE these guys?...NRA safety trainers or what?!!! Some of us go through the trouble of carrying a pair of compact binoculars.
And ANOTHER THING: Who are these generational products of close family life who go onto my family's private property w/out permission, cut down trees to make a clearing for a better shot, bait, and put up a blind or build permanent tree stands?!
And ANOTHER THING: Who are these generational products of kissing cousins who have so much disrespect for personal property that they tear down barbed wire and remove whole acres of fence posts and dump piles of refuse onto my families' property?!!
And ANOTHER THING: Who are these generational products of family planning who tear down my family's expensive yellow, plastic posted signs that say "NO HUNTING, OR TRESPASSING!"?!!
And ANOTHER THING: If you know, please convey this information to me so that I may hunt the proper species when hunting season gets here. BTW For those of you who are evolutionists, when does a human being cease to be a human being and becomes simply an animal? Just asking. I had a biology professor who spent half of the class trying to convince us that earthworms were our ancestor. By the end of class, we concluded that it wasn't the earthworm, but the professor who was the biggest evidence to prove his hypothesis. Just for laughs.
And ANOTHER THING: Who are these generational products of close family life who go onto my family's private property w/out permission, cut down trees to make a clearing for a better shot, bait, and put up a blind or build permanent tree stands?!
And ANOTHER THING: Who are these generational products of kissing cousins who have so much disrespect for personal property that they tear down barbed wire and remove whole acres of fence posts and dump piles of refuse onto my families' property?!!
And ANOTHER THING: Who are these generational products of family planning who tear down my family's expensive yellow, plastic posted signs that say "NO HUNTING, OR TRESPASSING!"?!!
And ANOTHER THING: If you know, please convey this information to me so that I may hunt the proper species when hunting season gets here. BTW For those of you who are evolutionists, when does a human being cease to be a human being and becomes simply an animal? Just asking. I had a biology professor who spent half of the class trying to convince us that earthworms were our ancestor. By the end of class, we concluded that it wasn't the earthworm, but the professor who was the biggest evidence to prove his hypothesis.
Just for laughs.when does a human being cease to be a human being and becomes simply an animal?
Erm, when he is elected President?
(rimshot)
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"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question.." Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.
Erm, when he is elected President?
(rimshot)
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"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question.." Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.
hksigwalther
New member
Same as EQUALIZER. I grew up around Cleveland and since moving to a more rural section of Ohio I've heard of co-workers, who own property, complaining about city hunters (from Cleve, Akron, Canton, etc.) come rolling in in their SUVs and start setting up on property they have no permission to hunt on! Incredibly inconsiderate and stupid. Didn't know the problem was this prevalent.
- Ron V.
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- Ron V.
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Driving west on the PA Turnpike one opening day of hunting season...I could spot hunters in the woods pretty easily, lots of them. I was driving through an area where the road had been cut through a ridge, so the median strip was 20-30 feet higher than the highway, and, yep, there's some yahoo, blaze orange and all, sitting on the high feature in the median, scoping out the low terrain to the north through his rifle scope. Does he qualify for Pittsburgh citizenship?
MLT,
Hope we do meet sometime. Sometimes my sense of sarcastic humor offends those who don't know when I'm being serious or not. The hunters that you've refered to remind me of the city version of those hillbillies that the canoests met at the beginning of the movie "Deliverance". That's where the banjo playing comment comes from.
I've known hunters to break into a nice house that my family rented out one time, that wasn't occupied at the time. It overlooked a field and provided shelter out of the elements for someone who thought he'd make himself at home. After breaking in, he managed to break out a panel in another door, so he could get a good vantage point. Did a stickey window stop him on the other side of the house? No, just break that baby and there...a perfectly good gun rest on the sill with a chair to boot. What would have been interesting is if I had shown up to check on the house at the time. Two armed individuals. One who does not respect other's property...I wonder about others lives?...
How many have had bullets closely zing past them during deer season?
Hope we do meet sometime. Sometimes my sense of sarcastic humor offends those who don't know when I'm being serious or not. The hunters that you've refered to remind me of the city version of those hillbillies that the canoests met at the beginning of the movie "Deliverance". That's where the banjo playing comment comes from.
I've known hunters to break into a nice house that my family rented out one time, that wasn't occupied at the time. It overlooked a field and provided shelter out of the elements for someone who thought he'd make himself at home. After breaking in, he managed to break out a panel in another door, so he could get a good vantage point. Did a stickey window stop him on the other side of the house? No, just break that baby and there...a perfectly good gun rest on the sill with a chair to boot. What would have been interesting is if I had shown up to check on the house at the time. Two armed individuals. One who does not respect other's property...I wonder about others lives?...
How many have had bullets closely zing past them during deer season?