Radom VIS P-35 or Star BM 9mm?

D

Dino.

Moderator
I've been looking for a 1911 style 9mm for some time now and when I recently obtained my C&R, it opened up a whole new world for me. :)

I really love the history behind C&R guns so I decided to look for a gun that would meet my passion for history as well as meet my desires for a 1911 style 9mm.

I have it narrowed down to two ... the Star BM and the Radom VIS.
The two that I'm looking at in particular are both in good condition.
The BM appears to fit 1911 criteria a little closer, but I'm really attracted to the Radom too as it has all it's Nazi markings and a lot of history.

I'd like for whichever pistol I choose to be a shooter, so availability of parts is a consideration as well.

Your thoughts?
 
I suspect that availability of parts for either will be difficult, going on impossible. But I'd also suspect a Radon, especially with Nazi markings, would be a lot more expensive. The Star BM is a conventional pistol with a lot to recommend itself, provided nothing breaks, especially if you like 1911 style pistols. I wish Colt had made them.
 
Radom:
Pro: Real wartime history, Polish production taken over by Germans.
Con: Funny control layout and manual of arms, that is NOT a safety catch.

Star:
Pro: Good layout, the proverbial "1911 without a grip safety."
Con: Just a gun. Not much history unless you see one of the few German contract pistols or one known to have come out of one or another conflict.

Parts availability is likely to be poor if you plan to pound them with a lot of shooting and need repair. After all, they have to be over 50 years old to be C&R. Stars are known to break firing pins if dryfired much. So don't dryfire.
 
The VIS to collect, but I'd go with the Star for a shooter. If the Star breaks and you can't find parts, you're not out a whole lot. I wouldn't risk breaking something on the VIS.
 
Thanks guys.
I was leaning towards the VIS but as it turns out, the seller of the one I wanted refuses to ship to me becuase I live in Maryland.

I guess there are others out there but I really had my heart set on this one. :(
 
I was leaning towards the VIS but as it turns out, the seller of the one I wanted refuses to ship to me becuase I live in Maryland.
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Is there a problem shipping to a C&R in Maryland??
 
Is there a problem shipping to a C&R in Maryland??
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It's perfectly legal to ship a C&R handgun to a licensed resident in Maryland.
I've asked sellers who have refused and none have been able to provide a legal explanation. Most just say that "Maryland laws are too complicated" or that it's merely a "CYA" thing.

Yeah, I don't get it either. :rolleyes:
 
Here is the MD scoop. When MD passed a law requiring a board to approve guns before they could be sold in MD (to eliminate "cheap Saturday Night Specials"), the then-Attorney General, who hated guns and was considered by many, even in his own party, to be a real madman, sent letters to every gun distributor in the country, telling them that if they shipped an "unapproved" gun into MD, he would sue in federal court, put them out of business, etc. He also pulled other tricks straight out of the Nazi playbook - intimidation by police, seizure of books and magazines, death threats against the opposition, the whole repression bit, except that his "brownshirts" were the Maryland State Police. (That they really wear brown shirts is probably a coincidence.)

That thug has long gone and the current AG, though a liberal, has shown himself to be reasonable. Since those "opinions" don't extend beyond the term of the AG who issues them, they are no longer in effect, but many distributors were scared enough to refuse to ship any guns to MD, even to FFL dealers.

The C&R question is more iffy. In general, MD does not recognize the C&R FFL. The current positon seems to be that a C&R licensee can have a "regulated firearm" (handgun or "assault rifle") that is also a C&R shipped to him legally. But he/she cannot sell or transfer that gun in MD, even to another C&R licensee, without going through the state registration.

It is confusing, but Marylanders have one thing to be thankful for - we are not as bad off as NY, NJ or CA. And Adolf, Jr. is no longer Attorney General.

Jim
 
Thanks Jim.
Now I have a better understanding of why some seller are reluctant.
I'm still a little confused as to how the state of Maryland doesn't recognize a license issued by the Federal Government though.

I always believed Federal law trumped State law. :confused:
 
I'm still a little confused as to how the state of Maryland doesn't recognize a license issued by the Federal Government though... I always believed Federal law trumped State law.
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A C&R licensee is still a private individual and therefore may be subject to state laws governing firearms transfers. Federal law does not exempt C&R FFLs from all state and local firearms restrictions.

Whether or not a state law applies to a C&R licensee is often a matter of wording in the state statute. For instance, a hypothetical statute could exempt a "federal firearms licensee" or a "federally licensed firearms dealer." A C&R licensee is the former but not necessarily the latter; the usual term for a C&R licensee is a licensed collector. YMMV. :)
 
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Maryland law recognizes two classes of firearms (aside from machineguns), "regulated firearms" and other firearms. Regulated firearms are non-antique handguns and "assault rifles". To receive from out of state, and to deal in, regulated firearms, a dealer has to have a Maryland regulated firearms dealers license, in addition to the normal 01 FFL. The MD regulated firearms dealers license is issued only to 01 FFL holders, not to 03 FFL holders, so technically, an 03 FFL (C&R license) holder cannot receive regulated fire arms from out of state. (Other C&R items, like a Mosin-Nagant rifle, are not regulated and Maryland simply doesn't address them, so an 03 FFL holder can order M-N's, Mausers and SMLE's to his heart's content.)

Since the C&R FFL is not recognized in regard to regulated firearms, and is irrelevant to non-regulated firearms, it is essentially worthless in the state. But the problem is that the federal law still allows an out of state dealer to ship a C&R item to an 03 FFL in MD. Rather than try to prosecute the out of state dealer or the 03 FFL holder, the state has decided to allow the shipment into the state, and control further transfer in the state by requiring that an 03 FFL holder receiving a regulated firearm register it through a dealer or through the state police. A PITA, and unenforceable, but given our current inability to change the law, probably the best we can get.

As for state law over riding federal law, it is done all the time. Federal law, for example, sets up a dealer licensing system for selling machineguns and suppressors. But many states ban either or both; the feds say you may, the state says you may not. The same goes for other areas, like marijuana. It is the bane or boon of a federal system.

Jim
 
I'm often tempted to buy something I wouldn't otherwise because it's "C&R"...
Then I get back to reality and realize that all the C&R does is save me a $30 transfer.

That's a pretty expensive pistol... for a few hundred more, you can get the likes of a new Kimber or Springfield in a 1911, 9mm handgun.

It's a different matter if you collect. For frequent shooting, I'd go with the modern firearm. If it's really worth the $600-$700 they seem to be selling for, I'd be hard pressed to shoot it often (if it's really a collectible).
 
I'm often tempted to buy something I wouldn't otherwise because it's "C&R"...
Then I get back to reality and realize that all the C&R does is save me a $30 transfer.
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If the only reason you would consider a C&R handgun is to save the $30 transfer fee, then you're right .... C&R is not for you.

That's a pretty expensive pistol... for a few hundred more, you can get the likes of a new Kimber or Springfield in a 1911, 9mm handgun.
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For a few hundred more, I could have bought a new Kimber or SA 1911, 9mm handgun that would depreciate in value the minute I bought it. Or for a few hundred less, I could own a piece of world history that, in time, is more likely to increase in value with collectors.

I guess it's all in how you look at it.
I own several modern handguns and I own a couple nice C&R pieces.
I enjoy them all for different reasons. :)
 
That's a pretty expensive pistol... for a few hundred more, you can get the likes of a new Kimber or Springfield in a 1911, 9mm handgun.
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I don't think its expensive at all. Expensive is case sensitive, different meaning for different people.

To compare the value of a Radom to a new SA 1911 is almost like saying a 2011 Camaro is a better buy than a 1969 Camaro, or that a 1969 Camaro should cost way less. Ever hear of an antique? Well, generally they're not cheaper than brand new. Maybe you would make sense to a few, to people who never heard of collecting, or investing in firearms. I got news for you buddy, there is a major collecting underworld for guns where people pay $1000s and even 10s of $1000s or more for the right stuff. I guess you haven't sniffed it out yet, but its there.
 
I understand the concept of collecting.
I was just under the impression that the OP was looking for a regular shooter, since he was interested in the availability of parts.

Now, if you're truly collecting, and are concerned about maintaining the value of the weapon (or, hopefully appreciating, if you're lucky), wouldn't that preclude shooting to the extent that you need to replace parts? Doesn't replacing parts de-value the weapon (as does frequent shooting from wearing out the bore)?

Nothing wrong with buying a milsurp and shooting it until you wear it out...
I just think a modern firearm is more suitable as a daily shooter for many reasons.

Flame away...
 
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