Racist History of Handgun Bans in America

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#18indycolts, if that's your reading of the history of this country, I pity you.
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Well Al, if you take out the tyranny and class warfare arguments he does have a point, albiet overstated...where would we be without rascism and genocide, historically apropos as it was...;)

Wildremember...thewestwaspittsburgAlaska TM
 
Anti- sorry if you don't feel that way, but I think I hit the nail directly on the head. This country was built on greed (taking land by force, the enslavement of a people and the ruling elite keeping the rest of the population in check. It all started with the not-so-good of a guy Chris Columbus. I'm not trying to argue here, just stating the facts of what our core principles were and are.
 
Yeah, this is really old stuff that was in print for years and years. Do we really need it THIS year?:confused: How about "reverse descrimination influences gun sales nationwide"? With all the minority gangs toting around busloads of illegal guns, how can digging up old articles for inflammatory use be of any importance to an Obamanation? -7-
 
Keep your emotions in check, people.

Yes, this subject has been discussed before.

But just because it's been discussed once or twice or whatever DOESN'T MEAN THAT EVERYONE, EVERY NEW MEMBER, EVERY NEW ADVOCATE OF THE SHOOTING SPORTS, EVERY NEW GUNOWNER, IS FAMILIAR WITH IT!

So, I'll issue this warning:

If all you have to "contribute" to this discussion is a mini-screed questioning the motives of the original poster, bitching about the tenancy of the post, or anything else, STAY OUT OF IT.

Do I make myself clear?

Any more messages that consist of nothing by "WAAH! WAAH! WE KNOW THIS! will be summarily deleted and the poster will be dealt with accordingly.

To sum it up?

STOP YOUR DAMNED THREAD CRAPPING!
 
This discussion is still valid today. Many states instituted may-issue CCW laws precisely to keep guns out of the hands of minorities. That's still used today to restrict CCWs to the political and economic elite. Those origins need to be well known and discussed precisely so that we can rub the antis noses in their racist and elitist goals.
 
Racism, tryanny, class warfare....

A casual look at world history will show few, if any nations that were not founded with (not ON) those principals being used.

No nation, no people in history, do not have someone that they have not treated as well as they might. The concept that people who are weaker than you should be treated fairly, because they are people the same as you and I, is fairly recent in world history, and far from widespread, even today.

The concept that "might makes right" is as old as mankind. And is still in use in much of the world today.

I think that it is important to know where we came from, to better understand where we are, and where we are going. But we should not automatically ascribe the injustices of the past to the present.

All of us did things as children that we later came to understand were wrong, and most of us feel a degree of shame for those things, and for not knowing better. So it is with nations.

The greatest achievement of our nation is not what we have done wrong, but what we have done right, and the fact that we can recognise the difference. And that we constantly strive to improve.

We have taken many false steps in the past. We will take many in the future. Sometimes we step in it. And it stinks. When the smell finially gets to our noses, we wipe our shoes and step onward.

Not everything in our past was good and right. Not everything was evil and wrong. How we got here matters. What matters more is where we go from here.
 
There was a sort of carry permits by zip code in Los Angeles County (CA) that showed Beverly Hills and other such places to have the vast bulk of permits.

A sort of violent crime by zip code produced an inverse pattern.

A sort by race by zip code showed a pattern closer to the crime pattern than the distribution of carry permits.

I lost the cite, dullard that I am, but clearly the "may issue" power is being abused here.
 
Okay orchidhunter, you still haven't explained the reason why you are reposting an old topic with information not of your own. What was your point? So what if early US gun control laws were racist? What bearing does it have on today? Are you suggesting gun control laws continue to be racist in some manner or did you just feel the need to repost old information for some reason?

If you think there is a reason why we need to be retold of this, feel free to share.
 
44 amp said it well. We can point to our current president as proof that we as a nation change. Most of us on here will and do disagree with some portion of the policies of our elected representatives if it's important enough we vote them out during our biennial revolutions.
We are making progress on showing the racist and classist roots of gun control but there are still an awful lot of people to convert. I am working on both my father and father in law and a couple other liberal friends. Ideally that will add 4 or 5 people to our ranks over time. If everyone does that pretty soon we get back to the original vision of the 2nd and maybe the fed monster shrinks a little too.

Unless of course Obama switches tack and starts giving away M-4s and unlimited supplies of ammo. There won't be any deficit shrinking then.
 
00 Spy,
I am glad this post came up again as it is the first time I have seen it and it helps fill out my history of how gun control has been used by those who would oppress others, from the Klan to bad governments.

And 44 amp is right. What makes us heroes or chumps is what happens tomorrow, the day after and so on. Knowing the past is essential so that as we change in the future, we make change for the good. We have a baseline to measure from, a list of how-to's and don't do's. Don't do's we should try to avoid. It appears to me Mr. Obama and cadre have a bag full of them they want to try anew.
 
So what if early US gun control laws were racist? What bearing does it have on today?
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Many US gun control laws do have racist roots, but that is only the beginning of the story. After overt racism became less acceptable, many of the racially-based laws were changed to discretionary restrictions and prohibitions; the "authorities" entrusted with discretion under those laws "knew" who was acceptable and who was not. Over time, that discretion morphed from a racial basis to an elitist basis; if you were rich, or prominent, or otherwise well-connected, you were acceptable. In the last several decades, we are have made much progress in shifting gun control laws from a basis of arbitrary discretion to transparent and consistent standards.
 
Double Naught Spy, See post #24. orchidhunter
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Once again, I will ask YOU. Why did you post it? What is the point you are trying to make?

I fail to understand, as per post 24, what contribution you are making by reposting old information. You apparently want to make a point, so what is it?
 
Double Naught Spy, Yes, this subject has been discussed before.

But just because it's been discussed once or twice or whatever DOESN'T MEAN THAT EVERYONE, EVERY NEW MEMBER, EVERY NEW ADVOCATE OF THE SHOOTING SPORTS, EVERY NEW GUNOWNER, IS FAMILIAR WITH IT
 
We have to remember that slavery was/is not a racial issue. Slavery is about power and economics; the power of one group of people over another. Israelites, Hittites, Eqyptians, Greeks, Romans, Persians all practiced slavery in one form or another; and each of these civilizations was, in turn, enslaved.

African slaves got from the interior of Africa courtesy of tribal warfare. The traders also realized that European traders were interested in cheap labor in the Caribbean islands, and Central and South America.

So, to lay blame to the founding of the United States is disengenuous. Not until slaves were freed in the mid-nineteenth century, did overt racism rear its head. People considered negroes ingnorant and uneducable, because that was their baseline of knowledge. What else would one expect, when the knowledge of Africa was limited to the ocean shores until the mid-19th century?

This discussion is being held in the light of late 20th and early 21st century perspectives. That is a far more egregious sin, than what and how people believed in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries. Since none of us were around in 1776, we can't be the judge of those who were.

Only in the last four hundred years has mankind moved toward science and technology societies. In fact, we weren't aware of the origins of the universe until the mid-20th century. Mankind has been around for about 3.5-to-4.5 million years. That's a long time to discover the human genome, viruses, the rocket, and oh yes, the gun.
 
First there is this thread (What is the history of Gun Control in the US ? from April of 1999 - Fully ten years ago.

Then there is this thread ( Racism and the RKBA ... what connection?) from June of 2000.

All the way to this thread (The Racist Origins Of The Current Concealed Carry Gun Laws In California) from June of 2008.

Over all, this topic has been discussed a minimum of once each and every year TFL has been around. So why aren't you posting links to Clayton Cramers compelling work: The Racist Roots of Gun Control (an early abstract is here). Or how about Jim March? He's a member here and has written some excellent articles on the subject.

I guess what I'm trying to say, orchidhunter, is do the research and present the facts, if what you want to do is to help educate our newer members. What you presented in the OP, was good, but... Where were the factual links to substantiate what you were trying to say? Added to this, you left out a whole lot of history and got some of it completely wrong.

The name of the game is Reasoned and Rational Discussion.
 
That really shouldn't be too surprising considering what this country was founded upon. Racism, tyranny, genocide and class warfare.
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This is a pretty offensive statement. There may be a little truth to it but the offensive part is the phrase "was founded upon". If the ancient history of every country was known-racism, tyranny, genocide, and class warfare could be found everywhere. We live in a free country were anyone has the opportunity to better themselves.
There are historical examples of Americans not having these opportunities. But they aren't what our country was founded on though. Our country was founded on positive things such as majority rule but individual have rights. When I think of America I think of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, not Racism, Tyranny and Genocide. This isn't because of ignorance. It's because when I look around I see much more good than bad. I hope the country as a whole isn't shifting to such a negative view of our origins.

BTW-Great post Orchidhunter. Very educational. You can't hold down an armed people for long. Condy Rice has said that she believes that guns protected her family from Clan violence when she was a child.
This is just another angle on the idea that an armed populace will be treated better than an unarmed populace.
 
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