Racism and the RKBA ... what connection?

You get the racism card where ever you go. It's not like RKBA has taken the first hit on this. If there is a majority of Whites involed in something, its a racist group/movement. People are saying that the MMM was a white group only thing. The US has a bad problem with racism, whether you tend to beleive it or not. If you do the research you will see it, and it breaks down to the media's doing.

[This message has been edited by glockguy45 (edited June 03, 2000).]
 
Also RKBA isn't a human right, it is a American Right, I dont see anywhere else in all the history books or "holy books" does it say a human has the right to bear a arm.

I also see a lot of KKK references, the KKK couldn't fight themselves out of a wet paper sack, They are a early to mid 1900's group that use to be strong. A lot of your miltia's are very racist and are waiting for "The Day of Reckoning". I am not trying to flame anybody but don't think that you have to have a white sheet over your head to be a extremist, the way our culture is today you would be a outcast if you brought up any racist remarks so the way people feel isn't brought out as much for fear of losing a job or what have you. But you get these same people out and with other people that feel the same way, you would be amazed at who you might find being a racist.
 
Yeah, there are racists & bigots out there - you can find them at every gun show. And every mall, Wal-mart, social function, office building, convention, whatever. There's always somebody who thinks because you share an interest in "X" (or just a skin color), you must agree with their entire political philosophy, and want to discuss it with you. Fortunately, they're usually about as bright as a blown bulb. Unfortunately, there's hardly ever a good way to shut them up.

I think there's a lot more covert racism than overt racism, though. I think the examples given about drug and gun laws are right on target (pardon the pun). When smoking marijuana was an evil thing that was only done by people who were from the other side of the tracks, laws were harsh - the punishment far outweighed the crime. But when the middle class white high school kids started getting busted for it, whammo, they started reducing felonies to misdemeanors. Cocaine worked in reverse - it was overlooked when it was a white upper class drug, but once it became cheap and common, the enforcement got really harsh. Guns, well, I don't think too much has changed in the last 200 years - many at the top seem to feel that it's okay for them & their friends to be armed, but anyone beneath them should be locked away for wanting to own a gun. And it was okay for poor black high-school age kids to do drive by's (even if they hit a few innocent blacks), but a over a year later we're still hearing about how we need to pass gun laws because of Columbine. The difference, I think, is that the Columbine massacre happened to and was caused by white middle class kids. I doubt there would have been Million Mom March if the same incident had happened in one of the schools in a minority section of town. The attitude seems to be "it's okay as long as it happens to them" - whoever "them" might be. It's funny, but sooner or later, "them" is "us". We're all in this mess together, like it or not.

I think gun control, drug laws, possibly even racism, etc. are simply symptoms of a bigger problem - the growth of elitism in this country.
 
I think that it is a matter of elitism. I used to live in Birmingham in a predominatly black area (Ensley for those of you from AL), one day there was a gang related shooting in the high school parking lot and several people were injured. (Can't remember if anybody died). It made the local news for a night, didn't even get mentioned in national news of course. School shooting in a suburban neighborhood, oh man, there are going to be hundreds of news reports over and over and over... That is disgusting, the news elite can decide what life is cheap, and what life is worth reporting. :mad:

Bigots, extremists, and nut cases do not help RKBA. They only make most of middle America thing that we are all nuts.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by glockguy45:
Also RKBA isn't a human right, it is a American Right, I dont see anywhere else in all the history books or "holy books" does it say a human has the right to bear a arm.[/quote]

Actually, Glockguy, you overlook the Magna Carta (sp?). While I don't know the exact words, our 2nd amendment descends from that document.

Remember that arms were not always guns. They were first clubs, swords, spears, and bows. Makes no difference, the philosophy is the same.

Then there is the Bible, which contains passages that endorse self defense and defense of property. While the specific weapon may not be mentioned, it clearly alludes to lethal force for certain defensive situations.

I am sure that a detailed search would show other examples. But just try the logic...
Self defense (including, but not limited to defense of community - i.e. "a free state") is a human right. Restricting effective tools for that defense infringes on that right. It only follows logic then that RKBA is a human right.
-FreeMe
 
Posted by Glenn E. Meyer: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>... It is true that gun control laws were racist in origin. However, when the laws started to apply to folks who weren't minorities - then the **** hit the fan.

Similar analysis of drug laws - very tough laws on marijuana when it was in the ghetto.
When "nice" kids got busted, it was decriminalized in some places. ...[/quote]
This is good stuff. I think the realization of some of this is just getting through to me. Good post, Glenn.

***************************

Posted by Glockguy45: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Also RKBA isn't a human right, it is a American Right, I dont see anywhere else in all the history books or "holy books" does it say a human has the right to bear a arm.[/quote]Glockguy45, 'don't think I agree with that one. Get a copy of The Second Amendment Primer, by Les Adams. Palladium Press, Birmingham, AL. I see it for sale in full page ads in every issue of Shooting Times and The American Rifleman.

[This message has been edited by sensop (edited June 03, 2000).]
 
Glockguy...
I'm human, I'm an animal, I'm biological...I don't need a written and documented right to self-defence....I have genetically programmed imperative. I can't help myself.

Go mess with a cat, dog, rat, snake, etc....just like humans, you'll get one of 2 responses......they run, or they bite. I bite, and I don't recognize anyone's permission for me to do so or not.....my life, my rules. Capishe?

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
derglockenpooper,

Re. The Panthers: Some were idealists, many were just thugs, but thugs or not it took a lot of stones, back in the 60s, to go openly armed in contempt of cop (hospital time in most states, toe-tags in Alabama).

There was an interesting incident, in Chicago I believe, where the local cops killed several Panthers while serving a warrant. The cops claimed a righteous shooting. The forsenics proved otherwise. Contempt of cop is a serious offense.

Racism and RKBA:

The racist smear that is attached to RKBA is no accident. The white supremist groups intentionally seized on strongly polarizing constitutional issues to help gain recruits and to legitimize their warped points of view through association with mainstream organizations and easily defended constitutional princilples. That is why, on occassion, our paths cross. They do not intersect, but they do cross. Even so, these brushes, in passing, taint us.

It is easily demonstrated that most of the low-lifes involved in this racist non-sense are far from "superior," so they have taken to calling themselves "separatists." They are not separate enough.

Goblins come is all creeds and colors, as do the good guys. I say, "You know a man better by the enemies he makes rather than by the friends he cultivates."

-William
 
Good post. Is the Chicago incident, the one that was on a Discovery channel or TLC special on forensics where they traced the bullet paths to show how the guys were murdered by the "forces of good"?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DC:
... I'm biological...I don't need a written and documented right to self-defence....I have genetically programmed imperative. I can't help myself.[/quote]

DC

You nailed it.

"... the Constitution is, after all, just a piece of paper."

We all have some baaahhhd @$$ DNA that survived when the odds said it would not. We did not rise to the top of the food chain just to eat lettuce, or by eatting lettuce, either.

Re. The Panthers and the Chicago incident? If it was indeed Chicago, you are correct. The forensic expert proved through bullet angles that law enforcement not only opened fire before SOP had been implemented but also killed one Panther while he slept (how you stay asleep in the middle of a gunfight I don't know ??? An anomoly that leads me to doubt all the "facts" in evidence.)

William



[This message has been edited by William R. Wilburn (edited June 05, 2000).]
 
If I may point out, we are ALL to a degree uneasy around other ethnic groups. This uneasiness goes away with exposure and understanding. What is left is either an appreciation of or a dislike of that group's value system. Racism is when you are unable to control your uneasiness or dislike. Forgive me for being simplistic, but often simple tends to inspire some of the more verbose members.

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I don't CARE about pretty....I just want dangerous.
 
You ALL make good points--ONE other thing to bear in mind:
The "anti's" ( and nearly everyone on the left ) regard certain "labels" of their opponents as The Ultimate Weapon of Mass Destruction--it's supposed to silence dissent. You hear it all the time on the TV:
Racist-
Homophobic-
Bigoted-
Mysogynist-
But they've overused these semantically-loaded words so much that they're losing their shock value--like "we must DO THIS For the Children's Sake..."
FWIW, racism is as old as mankind--people just naturally favor their own group, and no law made by Man can change that--but we can change the way we ACT towards another.

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"live free or die trying..."
 
Actually, racism is something that is the fault of all types (races) of people. It's a card that is used to gain more "power" over others or to justify why someone did something illegal (morally wrong) and get away with it. I am a racist... I hate it when a person, who happens to have different pigmentation then I, shoves, "you owe me for what your people did to my people over 200 years ago". This sets up an automatic defense posture. It's not my fault what "my people" did to "yours". I don't/didn't "own" you and I wouldn't want to own you. To own another person makes me liable to ensure that I provide housing, food, and a place to sleep. Not to mention the fact that I can't fire you if you don't work; as well as it being hard to sell a defective or non-working device. And that statment goes for any device, no matter the make or model, color or workmanship. But you have people that keep the fire burning... the rev. fellow in northern Idaho (the skinhead people), the rev. JJ among others. As for who shouldn't own a gun and who should.. the solution is simple: If you fall under the BOR and the Constitution of the United States (basically, you are a Citizen) then you should be able to own guns, no matter your color, sexual preference, gender, height, car preference, TV show preference, etc.. If you are not a Citizen or if you do not fall under the protections of the BOR / Constitution then you shouldn't be able to have any of the Rights given. Not until you become a Citizen. As for felones, that's a hard one. It should be that if you are a felon you lose ALL YOUR RIGHTS, not just a few. This includes Right to speech, Right to assemble, the Right to your religious preference, the Right to a fair trial, the Rights under all articles of the BOR (including paying income tax). Not just the Right to vote and the Right to bear arms (unless this is specially addressed in the Constitution). It's a catch .22 when it comes to this aspect.

We will not ever move forward on this issue until people come to realize that you are 1) An American Citizen, and 2) It's good to view your heritage, but you are not a European American, a African American, or even an Asian American, you are an AMERICAN! Period!

USP45usp
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by USP45usp:
If you are not a Citizen or if you do not fall under the protections of the BOR / Constitution then you shouldn't be able to have any of the Rights given.[/quote]

The Bill of Rights doesn't "give" citizens the rights enumerated therein, it guarantees the rights that all people are born with. Every man, woman and child in the world has a right to defend themselves from attack. No piece of paper can remove that.


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RKBA!
"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4 Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website
 
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