questions on 870 Police Magnum

Math,
Obviously there's some confusion at Remington, that's why I kept going through a couple levels to try to pin it down.
The gal I talked to said she'd questioned that cosmoline thing specifically with their armorer, apparently the issue had come up recently. You frequently have to wade through two or three tiers of people when you first call a company, unless you know who to call in the first place.
I've got an email request in now with the office I normally deal with at Remington to point me to a definitive answer person willing to be quoted.
I'm not saying DFaris is totally up in the night, I don't think he is. The reason I'm trying to clarify this is because it seems to be a concern that's causing confusion, and when I do the write-up in a couple weeks on the one I have, I'd like to be accurate and informative for readers not familiar with all of this.
It's new to me, my old parkerized Express had no indications of a rust problem, signs of cosmo, or other related issues out of the box. Neither did the parkerized 870 Police Magnum I had here a while back.
As noted, it's not mentioned in the owner's manual, my gunsmith has never heard of it, neither have I, and if it's a fairly recent practice it oughta be known to potential buyers to avoid unpleasant surprises.
Another issue is the confusion in most people's minds the term cosmoline brings. Most familiar with the stuff immediately picture a thoroughly gooked-up gun that's going to take hours to de-gook. On seeing a dry gun, they may decide somebody was lost in the ozone & go ahead and shoot it as it comes out of the box. I've seen old cosmo and dried cosmo and caked cosmo before, but I've never seen invisible cosmo before. I'm glad to have seen these posts, I would have just tossed in a little Break Free inside & shot the thing. Now I know, at least partially, better and I'd like to pass that on.
I emphatically do not mean to be knocking DFaris or Remington. Actually, this whole project was partially based on his enthusiasm for the PMax, and I'll be keeping the gun when the article's done. Kinda like it. Looking forward to shooting it when I get a couple other things out of the way. :)
Denis
 
I'm going on two main sources:

1. Is the Remington Law Enforcement web site.
In the FAQ's they SPECIFICALLY state that:

"Q: I received my 870P and began to give it an initial cleaning. Rust came off the barrel and receiver. Why did the gun come to me rusted?"

"A: It was not rust, it was cosmoline. Because we do not know if the guns will be stored for a long period of time in a warehouse or put in a shipping container and shipped out of the country, Remington sprays a film of cosmoline over the inside and outside of the firearms to protect them from the elements when stored. That is one reason why it is so important to totally clean and lubricate your firearm before using. It is not good to just take it out of the box and begin shooting it or carrying it on duty."

2. The customer who thought his new Police gun was rusty after wiping it with a white cloth.
He returned it to Remington, Remington re-parkerized it, re-sprayed it with cosmoline and returned it.

He again got rusty looking brown stains off it, and complained about Remington's quality.
I explained the situation to him, and he called Remington to confirm.

A LE manager explained about the hot cosmoline, and told him some people hadn't gotten the word about the "rusty stain" issue, or they would have explained it to him instead of wasting everyone's time and money on an unnecessary return and re-finish.

To be fair, this was about 3 years ago.
I have NO idea if Remington is STILL doing this, but since I've seen it before, AND the Remington Official LE web site says it's so, I'll continue recommending exactly what Remington themselves say, until they "officially" say otherwise.

Chris17404:

Spray EVERYTHING except the wood or synthetic stock.
Spray the inside of everything including the receiver, and inside the magazine tube.

Let soak 30 minutes, then drain, shake, and wipe everything down, leaving a THIN coat of lube on everything.
Do enough to leave a thin coat, but you don't have lube running out from hidden areas.

Just wipe it with paper towel, or a clean cloth.

I recommend a good shotgun rod, brass bore brush, 12 gauge patches, a good bore solvent, and a chamber brush with handle.
This is about all you really need, along with your choice of lubricant.

Again, just follow the owner's manual instructions on how to disassemble the gun.
The receiver's bolt assembly comes out VERY easy, which is another 870 strong point.
 
DFaris,
Thanks. That wasted time & money scenario is part of what I'm trying to help avoid.
If the guns need special treatment, Remington should be telling people that.
I did see that section of their website you quoted, and I mentioned it to the gal I talked to today. She told me their armorer told her it's not cosmo, so they also need to get their info together to give people correct information in whichever direction is true.
I'm still wondering if they're just using cosmoline as a generic term for whatever spray they might be putting on them.
I meant no offense to you, just trying to figure out which way's up for the article, and you're partly responsible for that. :)
Denis
 
Thanks again for the great info, Dfaris. I have a few more questions...

During the disassembly process, a couple of the steps confuse me. Maybe it'll be easier to understand once I have the gun sitting in front of me:

Step 9: "Lift the breech bolt assembly and slide assembly from the rear of the action bars."

What exactly do I do here? A picture is worth a thousand words. I'm a very visual learner!

Step 13: "Tap out the front and rear trigger plate pins."

What exactly does that mean, and how do I do it? Tap from the inside of the receiver or the outside? Is there a specific tool I need to do this?

Thanks!
 
To "Tap out the front and rear trigger plate pins", get a wooden golf tee, or use a punch.
The wooden tee won't scratch the gun up.

Use whatever to just PUSH the two large pins on the side of the receiver until you push them out.

Once the pins are out, the trigger guard (trigger plate) can be removed out the bottom of the receiver.

To remove the bolt assembly, gently pull the forearm forward until it stops.
Reach up inside the bottom of the receiver, and press and hold the LEFT shell stop outward as shown in the manual.

Gently slide the forearm forward, and the bolt and slide assembly will slide out the front of the receiver.

Don't worry too much about "Lift the breech bolt assembly and slide assembly from the rear of the action bars.", since they'll fall off if you don't hold onto them.

Just in case, here's a link to an online factory owner's manual:
http://www.stevespages.com/page7b.htm

DPris:
NO PROBLEM.
I'm now wondering if this is old info, and the LE division just isn't updating their web site.

As a gunsmith, I tended to rather slavishly follow the factory recommendations, figuring that NO ONE knows more about their guns then they do.

I'd like to get a final word on this, but I figure that doing the strip and Rem-Oil or CLP business can't hurt, and might save an owner problems.

I always liked to remove the factory grit and dirty lube before using a gun, and this also gives you a good opportunity to check a new gun out for factory defects.

I'm not sure just how to resolve this, since it seems every time someone talks to Remington, they get different stories.

I had one old customer who knew nothing about shotguns call the factory to get the straight story on just how many rounds a standard 870 held.
He was told that the 870 holds FIVE rounds in the magazine, and ONE in the chamber.

In fact, for a time, this info was actually listed on the commercial site.

I guess the "Sprayed cosmoline" business isn't a critical issue, so until further notice, I'll continue to recommend new Police owners follow the Remington recommendation.
 
DFaris,

When I push the two large pins on the side of the receiver out, I assume you have to push from inside the receiver, right? All the pictures I've seen of this looks like they're pushing from the outside.

Chris
 
Chris,
You just tap the pins out from either side. Try to use a brass punch if you don't have a golf tee to keep from marking the pins. What do you mean "from the inside"? Look at the gun, pick a side of the receiver you like, put the punch on the pin on that side, and push or tap the pin out.
You're making this much harder than it needs to be.
Denis
 
870

hey Chris17404 , Im looking for the same gun but with wood furniture. Any chance I can get an email addy or web address for your dealer?
Been looking and the only places I can find are out of stock on the ones with wood.
thanks for any help you can throw my way.. D
 
FYI guys...

I created a Support ticket with Remington and asked the following question:

"Does the 870P model #4899 (the only one that comes with the "blued" finish, not parkerized) still come with a coating of cosmoline on it? I'd like to know if I need to drench it in RemOil to remove the cosmoline before using it just like the parkerized models. If not, what would you suggest I do to get the gun ready for service? Thanks."

Here was their response:

"Dear Chris,

We no longer ship our guns with cosmoline on them. We recommend that you clean your gun & then coat the outside with Rem Oil for protection."

I just picked up my new 870P tonight (model 4899 - with the blued finish and wood stock/fore end). All of the metal parts look pretty bare to me... nice and shiny, smooth as silk. I don't think there's any cosmoline on it at all.

I do still plan on completely disassembling it and drenching in with RemOil before putting it in service, though.

Just thought you may like to know...
 
Then that's the final word...Cosmoline is out.

But they now recommend treating the outside with something.

Personally I still like to do a full field strip to clean out any factory grit or dirty lube, and to check for any possible factory defects.
 
DFaris,
The answer I got back today from my contact at Remington was "The only 'lube' that they use on assembly and at packing is Rem-Oil."
Since you were reluctant to accept a "final word" from me, I asked for a name in a responsible position willing to be quoted, and hadn't intended getting on here again till I got one.
I'm not going to break mine down completely and soak it for 20 minutes, but I'll give it a good spray of Hornady's One Shot cleaner & dry lube inside before I take it out to the pit next week, and I'll reflect the new info from Remington in the write-up. I usually wipe down exterior parts with oil during the cleaning process after shooting anyway.
Nothing wrong with breaking it all the way down & soaking it thoroughly first if you prefer, but it doesn't seem to need the major pre-shoot treatment that Remington was indicating. Anybody thinking of buying one shouldn't worry about major prepping. :)
Denis
 
As I said, this constitutes a "final word" on the matter:

"Per Remington contacts, cosmoline is no longer used and is no longer a consideration".

I'll no longer recommend the web site instructions.
 
DFaris,
Just for fun, I decided not to do anything to the P Max before shooting it yesterday, took the Hornady lube along just in case.
Worked perfectly throughout the test with buck & ball loads, with two ejection exceptions probably caused by me shortstroking.
No smoking, no binding, no problems.
The light is much better centered on this one than my older SureFire model. The older one put the main light beam far enough under the sights that I always had to avoid the temptation to "lower the front sight" into the beam. This one puts the sights right in the center of the beam at most practical distances.
Great recoil pad. Needs to be ported, little cheek thump, but not too hard on the shoulder with 2 3/4 Magnum Brenneke & Winchester magnum slug and buck loads. Accuracy sufficient at 50 yards with slugs, it really liked the Hornady TAP reduced recoil buck. Very tight groups.
Thanks for generating the project idea, I'll be keeping the gun.
Denis
 
Is the new "Limbsaver-Remington R3" recoil pad as effective as I've heard?

I've gotten some reports that say the pad cuts felt recoil to near dove and quail load levels.
 
I had a Limbsaver installed on my Vang Comp 870 earlier this year to upgrade & update it from the standard Remington pad that was on it.
The two pads I use nowdays are KICK-EEZE and Limbsaver, and I can recommend them both highly if you've got a hard kicker.
My Vang Comp is a pussycat between the porting and the Limbsaver.
This P MAX Limbsaver pad is well contoured and well rounded top and bottom to help mounting & dismounting, and to prevent that usually sharp lower point from digging into the shoulder under recoil. I normally have to have my gunsmith round those off. It's one of the best "factory standard" pads I've ever seen.
As far as effectiveness goes, I noticed the cheek smack from the muzzle rise much more than the shoulder thump, and that was with 2 3/4-inch Magnum loads, too. Didn't try any 3-inchers, don't use 'em.
This barrel will be going off to Vang for porting sometime in the spring when I get caught up on some other things.
The only two downsides were the front sling swivel under the mag tube instead of on the side (sling will block the light), and the safety button is harder to access with the pistolgrip stock. Needs a bigger safety head & it'll get one.
Denis
 
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