Shiner Bock
New member
500 rounds of .22 ammo will cost about same as 50 rounds of 9mm. If you really want to build your skills, a .22 is the ticket.
Questions about guns from a 21 year old
- Thread starter fbilly71
- Start date
Here's some advice from somebody close to your own age (24). (Sorry guys, I know I don't know how old most of you are.)
Get a .22LR!!
There, that's better.
Seriously, start with a good .22 autoloader, like a Ruger 22/45, Mk III or Browning Buckmark. They're relatively inexpensive, cheap to shoot and good for building good habits. A shooter with a .22 is more likely to be able to put bullets on target than a shooter who only has a .44.
By 21 I was already so committed to being a gun-nut it's not funny. I had (and have) a Master-classification in NRA Highpower with an AR-15, shot lots of fun pistol matches and was reloading .223, .44 Magnum, 9mm Luger, .260 Remington, .30-06 and others.
Trust me from experience, don't give in to the big-boomer temptation right away. Learn the fundamentals. Practice the fundamentals. They are never wrong, and they work no matter what your friends and range buddies put in you hands. And real-world worries and constraints will almost always mean the .22 is the cheapest to shoot and easiest to find a place to shoot. As a bonus, most .22s will shoot very, very, very well with at least one kind of ammo.
Good luck.
Get a .22LR!!
There, that's better.
Seriously, start with a good .22 autoloader, like a Ruger 22/45, Mk III or Browning Buckmark. They're relatively inexpensive, cheap to shoot and good for building good habits. A shooter with a .22 is more likely to be able to put bullets on target than a shooter who only has a .44.By 21 I was already so committed to being a gun-nut it's not funny. I had (and have) a Master-classification in NRA Highpower with an AR-15, shot lots of fun pistol matches and was reloading .223, .44 Magnum, 9mm Luger, .260 Remington, .30-06 and others.
Trust me from experience, don't give in to the big-boomer temptation right away. Learn the fundamentals. Practice the fundamentals. They are never wrong, and they work no matter what your friends and range buddies put in you hands. And real-world worries and constraints will almost always mean the .22 is the cheapest to shoot and easiest to find a place to shoot. As a bonus, most .22s will shoot very, very, very well with at least one kind of ammo.
Good luck.
CGSteve8718
New member
I read your post, and saw that you have gone shooting before, and I'm sure you may have been told this but here it is again.
No matter what kind of gun it is, the following should be the first, and most important thing you learn:
1. Treat every weapon as if it were loaded
2. Never point your weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot
3. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you're ready to fire
4. Keep your weapon on safe until you're ready to fire
5. Know your target and what lies beyond it.
Some will give some variation to the above, but the crux of it will remain the same.
That was a general info. The only thing I personally want to add is this
No matter what kind of gun it is, the following should be the first, and most important thing you learn:
1. Treat every weapon as if it were loaded
2. Never point your weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot
3. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you're ready to fire
4. Keep your weapon on safe until you're ready to fire
5. Know your target and what lies beyond it.
Some will give some variation to the above, but the crux of it will remain the same.
That was a general info. The only thing I personally want to add is this
new to firearms
hey welcome to the forum, i have learned more from reading things on here then i ever could from books or magazines and the people on here are awesome so stop by often.
as for your first pistol. im going to go against the flow and say that if youve already shot and dont feel like getting a .22lr buy a 9mm. my first (and only sadly) pistol is a Ruger p95, its inexpensive (not cheap, it just doesnt cost as much as alot of others), reliable, accurate, and works good for pounding nails when your out of ammo.
now i say that but to be honest im craving a .22 pistol like you couldnt believe, maybe its a sign. well good luck with your decision and be safe with whatever you buy
Geter
hey welcome to the forum, i have learned more from reading things on here then i ever could from books or magazines and the people on here are awesome so stop by often.
as for your first pistol. im going to go against the flow and say that if youve already shot and dont feel like getting a .22lr buy a 9mm. my first (and only sadly) pistol is a Ruger p95, its inexpensive (not cheap, it just doesnt cost as much as alot of others), reliable, accurate, and works good for pounding nails when your out of ammo.
now i say that but to be honest im craving a .22 pistol like you couldnt believe, maybe its a sign. well good luck with your decision and be safe with whatever you buy
Geter
I would also advise a .22 to start out with as well for the reasons stated above. I think everyone should own at least one. I use mine to work on my trigger pull, grip, etc.. all of this done with basically no recoil let's me know whether im doing my part or not. It's not just a gun to learn on it's a gun to sharpen your skills on. I shoot mine at least 50 rounds at the begining of every other range trip to keep myself from forming bad habits and to work on areas that need improvement.
1. As daft as it sounds. Go here and search for revolvers. Basic stuff with lots of good pictures. http://www.howstuffworks.com/
P-990, sage advice that is. It's much better to be shooting a .22 regularly than having to eat Kraft Dinner to be able pay for shooting a centrefire. Until you start reloading anyway.
P-990, sage advice that is. It's much better to be shooting a .22 regularly than having to eat Kraft Dinner to be able pay for shooting a centrefire. Until you start reloading anyway.
Take a good beginner course
I just want to second the people who are telling you to get classes with a certified NRA pistol instructor. I wish that would have been around for me at 21, it would have saved me some having to unlearn bad habits, bad advise from well meaning people who are just passing on there bad habits.
How do I know..well, I took the time to be come a NRA certified pistol instructor where much of the training was how to teach, what and why. This does not mean I am a world class shot or a fountain of lore just I can teach and guide people who are interested in pistol shooting. You would be amazed at how many wifes we get who start to out shoot there hubbies. Now and then we get the frustrated husband who figures if we could help her, maybe he can get some help. Most are glad they took the time to get lessons. Like any sport or musical instrument, once you get the basics practice will hone your skills. That is where the wonderful 22 pays off in the long run over and over.
I just want to second the people who are telling you to get classes with a certified NRA pistol instructor. I wish that would have been around for me at 21, it would have saved me some having to unlearn bad habits, bad advise from well meaning people who are just passing on there bad habits.
How do I know..well, I took the time to be come a NRA certified pistol instructor where much of the training was how to teach, what and why. This does not mean I am a world class shot or a fountain of lore just I can teach and guide people who are interested in pistol shooting. You would be amazed at how many wifes we get who start to out shoot there hubbies. Now and then we get the frustrated husband who figures if we could help her, maybe he can get some help. Most are glad they took the time to get lessons. Like any sport or musical instrument, once you get the basics practice will hone your skills. That is where the wonderful 22 pays off in the long run over and over.
Welcome To The Forum.
You have come to the right place. This forum, I have found, is an enormous collection of willing people, who combined, have all the knowledge that you could ever hope to need. First off never be afraid to ask, someone will always have some kind of answer for you here.
So lets get started: All the advise I have read thus far is quite excellent.
1.) Here's how a gun works check out this link its pretty much everything you'll ever need to know and then some:
http://www.expertvillage.com/video-series/1854_hand-gun.htm
2.) Handguns in the movies are absolutely unrealistic . . .ABSOLUTELY UNREALISTIC! Make no mistake about it. And first person shooters are fun but they are no better in terms of the reality department.
3.) Eventual kids are defiantly a enormous issue. My advise, if you eventually have them would be go a little overboard when it comes to safety. You can never be to safe! Get yourself a trigger lock like these: http://www.gunaccessories.com/CCL/index.asp If you have little interest in actually using this gun in order to protect your homestead, and it is primarily for recreation in your hands and nothing else, by all means, with kids around don't stop there, go for broke: On top of the trigger guard also lock up your gun in a case and put the only key on your key chain or someplace else safe, put that case up high in a closet where they can't reach it, and ALSO lock up your ammo the same way in a second case separate from the one that holds your gun. That is a little bit over kill but when it comes to my family that's the way I prefer it, so I would recommend it should the stork fly your way
.
4.) Defense of the homestead, life and property however is a whole different story all together, if your desire to here about that, post back that you would and I'm certain many would be willing to share there views with you.
5.) If your gun is solely for sporting purposes alone than a .22 is pretty much the status quo. Easy, cheap and fun---can't really beat that! (though would not be the first choice if home defense is a consideration for you.)
6.) Now we get serious. This is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING . . . DO NOT I repeat do not EVER point your gun at anything that you are not willing to blow into oblivion! Always assume it is loaded. Never ever point it anywhere but at the targets at the range down range. Always assume it is loaded at ALL times. Accidents happen when people don't adhere to this code of conduct. The gun's safety is there for a reason but NEVER assume that it renders that gun perfectly safe or inert, always treat it as if it were loaded and ready to fire even when the safety is on. And yes even when its unloaded to. If you do this religiously you will never have a problem 99.9% of all negligent discharges (that means gun accidents) happen when people start screwing around and stop adhering to this code of conduct.
7.) Misfires WILL happen. That's when you pull the trigger and instead of a BOOM you get a click. When this happens always remember to keep pointing that gun down range. And wait at least 60 full seconds before you attempt to rectify the problem. There are such things as slow primers and sometimes like a rogue firecracker the bullet may actually be slow to fire. You can always pull the trigger a second time and see if that fires the bullet but if it does not wait . . . A full sixty seconds . . .while pointing the gun at the target . . . down range . . . .before you attempt to rectify the problem.
Do this and you'll have nothing but fun with it as well as a lifetime of healthy recreation. Follow these simple rules and you'll be ahead of many people at the age of 21 in terms of gun awareness and safety. Also one last thing DO NOT get involved in the macho silliness of caliber wars. If you want a .22 go for it, it a great gun especially recreational purposes. You will likely get snickers and comments about how small the bullets are but those guys are just blowing wind.
P.S. Also if you are going with a .22 and you love first person shooters check out the picture link below you have got to check out this gun! It is the .22 Neos from Beretta (just google it) and its about the coolest looking space gun on the market. Seriously the Master Chief himself could be carrying this thing . . .
Have a good time shooting . . .
You have come to the right place. This forum, I have found, is an enormous collection of willing people, who combined, have all the knowledge that you could ever hope to need. First off never be afraid to ask, someone will always have some kind of answer for you here.
So lets get started: All the advise I have read thus far is quite excellent.
1.) Here's how a gun works check out this link its pretty much everything you'll ever need to know and then some:
http://www.expertvillage.com/video-series/1854_hand-gun.htm
2.) Handguns in the movies are absolutely unrealistic . . .ABSOLUTELY UNREALISTIC! Make no mistake about it. And first person shooters are fun but they are no better in terms of the reality department.
3.) Eventual kids are defiantly a enormous issue. My advise, if you eventually have them would be go a little overboard when it comes to safety. You can never be to safe! Get yourself a trigger lock like these: http://www.gunaccessories.com/CCL/index.asp If you have little interest in actually using this gun in order to protect your homestead, and it is primarily for recreation in your hands and nothing else, by all means, with kids around don't stop there, go for broke: On top of the trigger guard also lock up your gun in a case and put the only key on your key chain or someplace else safe, put that case up high in a closet where they can't reach it, and ALSO lock up your ammo the same way in a second case separate from the one that holds your gun. That is a little bit over kill but when it comes to my family that's the way I prefer it, so I would recommend it should the stork fly your way
.4.) Defense of the homestead, life and property however is a whole different story all together, if your desire to here about that, post back that you would and I'm certain many would be willing to share there views with you.
5.) If your gun is solely for sporting purposes alone than a .22 is pretty much the status quo. Easy, cheap and fun---can't really beat that! (though would not be the first choice if home defense is a consideration for you.)
6.) Now we get serious. This is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING . . . DO NOT I repeat do not EVER point your gun at anything that you are not willing to blow into oblivion! Always assume it is loaded. Never ever point it anywhere but at the targets at the range down range. Always assume it is loaded at ALL times. Accidents happen when people don't adhere to this code of conduct. The gun's safety is there for a reason but NEVER assume that it renders that gun perfectly safe or inert, always treat it as if it were loaded and ready to fire even when the safety is on. And yes even when its unloaded to. If you do this religiously you will never have a problem 99.9% of all negligent discharges (that means gun accidents) happen when people start screwing around and stop adhering to this code of conduct.
7.) Misfires WILL happen. That's when you pull the trigger and instead of a BOOM you get a click. When this happens always remember to keep pointing that gun down range. And wait at least 60 full seconds before you attempt to rectify the problem. There are such things as slow primers and sometimes like a rogue firecracker the bullet may actually be slow to fire. You can always pull the trigger a second time and see if that fires the bullet but if it does not wait . . . A full sixty seconds . . .while pointing the gun at the target . . . down range . . . .before you attempt to rectify the problem.
Do this and you'll have nothing but fun with it as well as a lifetime of healthy recreation. Follow these simple rules and you'll be ahead of many people at the age of 21 in terms of gun awareness and safety. Also one last thing DO NOT get involved in the macho silliness of caliber wars. If you want a .22 go for it, it a great gun especially recreational purposes. You will likely get snickers and comments about how small the bullets are but those guys are just blowing wind.
P.S. Also if you are going with a .22 and you love first person shooters check out the picture link below you have got to check out this gun! It is the .22 Neos from Beretta (just google it) and its about the coolest looking space gun on the market. Seriously the Master Chief himself could be carrying this thing . . .
Have a good time shooting . . .
Attachments
So much to learn, and so much fun to have, and you have so much time!
Only way to really learn about guns is to try them. Preferably own them and get to know what you like and do not. Experience. So much of gun ownership is personal preference.
I really love a .22 pistol, but only after I got tired of spending so much money on 45 ACP. Now I shoot 45 to stay proficient (because it is my carry piece) but I use .22 to stay on the range all afternoon. In my personal experience I had to shoot the big calibers before I could appreciate the .22.
Join the NRA to help preserve your 2nd amendment rights. You are getting started early...good for you. Stay active, join a club in your area. Outside is best.
Go to the sherriff's office and apply for a concealed carry permit.
Learn about the 1911. I like pistols with 1911 type controls. Mag release, slide stop, and thumb safety.
It will take at least a year to start getting up to speed.
Good luck!
Only way to really learn about guns is to try them. Preferably own them and get to know what you like and do not. Experience. So much of gun ownership is personal preference.
I really love a .22 pistol, but only after I got tired of spending so much money on 45 ACP. Now I shoot 45 to stay proficient (because it is my carry piece) but I use .22 to stay on the range all afternoon. In my personal experience I had to shoot the big calibers before I could appreciate the .22.
Join the NRA to help preserve your 2nd amendment rights. You are getting started early...good for you. Stay active, join a club in your area. Outside is best.
Go to the sherriff's office and apply for a concealed carry permit.
Learn about the 1911. I like pistols with 1911 type controls. Mag release, slide stop, and thumb safety.
It will take at least a year to start getting up to speed.
Good luck!
Amazing
I have learned more in the past 3 days then I could have believed possible. I kid not when I say that I've spent my college career studying biology and absolutely nothing in that realm has interested me half as much as what I am just now beginning to learn.
I've already found NRA classes in my area and they are apparently held every Saturday from now until the end of time! I was relieved that the closest one is less than a 20 minute drive from where I live.
I also took y'alls advice on .22's. It seems that almost every post recommends these as a good starting weapon so I took the message to heart, and I looked at the information for a number of the guns you recommended. I especially liked the look of the Ruger MKIII and 22/45 that y'all mentioned. Form and function were both very appealing! (and not to mention the cost)
I must confess that I have also looked at a number of 9mm's. For one reason or another, I really like the CZ 75. I realize it's probably not a starting weapon but maybe one day after some more experience.
Thanks again for the posts! There's a gun show coming around my area in the next few weeks so I think I'll go out and take a look at some of the mentioned handguns. Don't worry though, no plans to purchase anytime soon! Just wanted to take some of your additional advice and see what they feel like.
I have learned more in the past 3 days then I could have believed possible. I kid not when I say that I've spent my college career studying biology and absolutely nothing in that realm has interested me half as much as what I am just now beginning to learn.
I've already found NRA classes in my area and they are apparently held every Saturday from now until the end of time! I was relieved that the closest one is less than a 20 minute drive from where I live.
I also took y'alls advice on .22's. It seems that almost every post recommends these as a good starting weapon so I took the message to heart, and I looked at the information for a number of the guns you recommended. I especially liked the look of the Ruger MKIII and 22/45 that y'all mentioned. Form and function were both very appealing! (and not to mention the cost)
I must confess that I have also looked at a number of 9mm's. For one reason or another, I really like the CZ 75. I realize it's probably not a starting weapon but maybe one day after some more experience.
Thanks again for the posts! There's a gun show coming around my area in the next few weeks so I think I'll go out and take a look at some of the mentioned handguns. Don't worry though, no plans to purchase anytime soon! Just wanted to take some of your additional advice and see what they feel like.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
There is no reason a steel 9mm pistol cannot be a good starter pistol. The low recoil is absorbed very well and it is very easy to learn fundamentals on one.
And if you can only afford one gun and it is also for HD then it is a much better choice than a .22 pistol.
Another new question
I figured I'd keep posting up in this original thread to quote, unquote: keep it alive.
But anyways...I'm just now starting to do some reading on bullet weight/grain and am somewhat at a loss. A number of posts have discussed the affects of weight vs. velocity and fortunately, my slim knowledge of physics helps with that.
But what do you shoot at the range? I know this is a horribly vague question but assuming you own a .22 or a 9mm and you shoot at the range, what ammo do you use for just that? Not for stopping power or such but for the heck of shooting?
Thanks again!
I figured I'd keep posting up in this original thread to quote, unquote: keep it alive.
But anyways...I'm just now starting to do some reading on bullet weight/grain and am somewhat at a loss. A number of posts have discussed the affects of weight vs. velocity and fortunately, my slim knowledge of physics helps with that.
But what do you shoot at the range? I know this is a horribly vague question but assuming you own a .22 or a 9mm and you shoot at the range, what ammo do you use for just that? Not for stopping power or such but for the heck of shooting?
Thanks again!
warrior poet
New member
Okay, inside of a cartridge there is a set amount of powder. This contains a finite amount of chemical energy. When set off, the powder expands creating and explosive energy (minus what is lost to light, heat, and sound). This is what pushes a bullet through the barrel and along its merry way. A lighter bullet will have a higher muzzle velocity b/c for a constant Force, a smaller mass accelerates faster. A heavier bullet accelerates slower, but is "pushed" by the same force for a longer amount of time (it is moving slower through the barrel so the explosion has more time to impart force to the bullet).
The lighter bullet has higher kinetic energy (K.E. = 1/2 mass * velocity squared) but a lower momemtum (Mom = mass * velocity). Because wind resistance increases with speed, eventually (at some point downrange) the heavier bullet will have a greater "retained" energy, due to its greater momentum. It will have lost some speed, just like the lighter bullet, but b/c its energy is tied to mass (which is unchanged from the time it left the muzzle) to a greater degree than the lighter bullet, it has retained a greater percentage of its inital energy.
People will argue which is more important until the cows come home- the flatness of the light bullet or the downrange retention of the heavier one. I think its a "Po tay to, po tat o" thing, but thats the physics broken down the best I can without getting into calculus. I hate "delta F, delta T" calculations, and so does darn near everyone else. That's why we have range tables.
The lighter bullet has higher kinetic energy (K.E. = 1/2 mass * velocity squared) but a lower momemtum (Mom = mass * velocity). Because wind resistance increases with speed, eventually (at some point downrange) the heavier bullet will have a greater "retained" energy, due to its greater momentum. It will have lost some speed, just like the lighter bullet, but b/c its energy is tied to mass (which is unchanged from the time it left the muzzle) to a greater degree than the lighter bullet, it has retained a greater percentage of its inital energy.
People will argue which is more important until the cows come home- the flatness of the light bullet or the downrange retention of the heavier one. I think its a "Po tay to, po tat o" thing, but thats the physics broken down the best I can without getting into calculus. I hate "delta F, delta T" calculations, and so does darn near everyone else. That's why we have range tables.
357WheelGun
New member
I shoot with something close to what I keep in the gun at home. I keep Speer Gold Dot .38 Special +P in the .357 and I shoot Speer Lawman .38 Special +P training ammo at the range. (The difference is that the Gold Dots are jacketed hollow-points while the Lawman is full metal jacket.) Another nice thing about the Lawman training ammo is that it's significantly cleaner than the other brand (Sellier & Bellot) that I tried while only being about $1.00 more per box.
If you're just looking at range ammo though, I wouldn't worry too much about it. When you decide to keep something loaded in the gun, then start practicing with something that is close to the same specs as your chosen defense round, but until then it is, as Warrior Poet pointed out, largely academic.
If you're just looking at range ammo though, I wouldn't worry too much about it. When you decide to keep something loaded in the gun, then start practicing with something that is close to the same specs as your chosen defense round, but until then it is, as Warrior Poet pointed out, largely academic.
curmudgeon1
New member
Buy a used 9mm and .45cal, and shoot them as much as you can while reading up on them as much as you can.
That will give you a well-rounded experience.
That will give you a well-rounded experience.
Good question.
Ummm, for 9mm, I just use whatever I can buy cheapest, as I don't reload that at this moment. Typically the cheapest 9mm loads will be 115gr FMJ loads, in any of the common brands. I've fired Wolf, CCI Blazer Aluminum, Blazer Brass, Winchester White Box (WWB for short on the boards), Remington UMC, Magtech, Sellior and Bellot and I'm sure other stuff I've forgotten about already. My experience is it is all acceptable in the accuracy department, but some (*cough* UMC *cough*) is really lousy in reliability in my Glock 17.
In .22, it's usually Federal hollowpoints. They come in a box of 550 and can be bought at Wal-Mart for about $12 per box. These are usually pretty accurate and reliable in most good .22s, but not all is good. This stuff varies more from production lot to lot than centerfire stuff in my experience. Some boxes are outstanding; others are simply a chore to shoot up so they don't contaminate the stash.
Another suggestion, if you are thinking of a centerfire that can double as a house gun, check out the .38 Special and .357 revolvers. Around here a new, stainless Ruger GP-100 in .357 with a 4" barrel is about $500. These are great, accurate, dependable pistols, and with .38s are far from too much gun for any shooter. And the .357 option really gives you some punch if you need it. Don't get freaked out by the Magnum in the name; they're not that bad to shoot, honest.
Just keep researching and asking questions. Shooters are some of the most helpful and friendliest people I've ever been around.
If you really want to learn, check out the basic courses your local range is able to offer. If nothing else is available, take the basic hunter-safety course.
Buy a pistol you can afford to shoot a whole lot, which means a .22. There is no substitute for practice! Buy plenty of ammo, and practice, pratcice, practice!
I would recomend the Bersa/Firestorm .22, and when you are ready to buy a bigger gun, get the Bersa .380. They are identicle in every detail except bore size.
With the purchase of the .380, you are now in a whole new world where you can take your personal safety into your own hands. Next take your state's required CCW course, and get your permit.
You are now truely an adult!
Buy a pistol you can afford to shoot a whole lot, which means a .22. There is no substitute for practice! Buy plenty of ammo, and practice, pratcice, practice!
I would recomend the Bersa/Firestorm .22, and when you are ready to buy a bigger gun, get the Bersa .380. They are identicle in every detail except bore size.
With the purchase of the .380, you are now in a whole new world where you can take your personal safety into your own hands. Next take your state's required CCW course, and get your permit.
You are now truely an adult!