Question to Dfariswheel on Pythons and .357 in general

D

Doug.38PR

Moderator
I was considering within a year of getting a .357 magnum to use primarily as as range gun so as not to worry about messing up my .38 OPs with all the high pressure rounds out there....and it would be nice to have a .357. :cool:
Guns being as expensive as they are, and prefering classic guns rather than modern guns (pretty much meaning guns introduced from 1990s forward with titainium and stainless steel.....and locking devices :rolleyes: ) I'd rather get something that 1) is classic blue steel finish and 2) is built to take .357 punishment. If I'm going to spend the money I want it to be worth my while.

At first I considered a Model 19 because they are nice and cheap but then found out that they are K frame guns that shake apart if you put enough full .357s through them. So that's out.

I'd like to go with something like a Python or a S&W .357 pre-model 27 if I can find one. Each are about the same price of about $900+.

If I can think of something cheaper and looks classic and nice I'd go with it. I've looked at some of the PreTrooper Colts or the Colt Lawman Mark III that run between $350-$500. But would they last?

For that matter, would a Python last? A dealer that I associate with at a local gun store told me the other day that he has already been through 2 Pythons but the S&W Pre M-27 is still alive and kickin. I've been told by other people too that Pythons will wear out like a M19 if you put enough .357s through them.

Yet, I seem to remember you saying that you've had your Pythons for 10+ years with them still in good working condition and 3-5000 rounds through them.

Your thoughts?

Thank you,

Doug
 
First of all, a steady diet of .357 Magnum rounds will take it's toll on any gun simply due to the higher pressures, gas-cutting of the topstrap and the recoil forces endured by the gun during firing.

Colt Pythons are fine guns, however it's getting harder to find gunsmiths willing to work on Colts. Parts are getting scarce and Colts are renowned for their finiky timing requirements. Shooting lots of .357's runs the risk of putting excessive wear on parts that are hard to get into time and even harder to replace.

Like you, I prefer blued guns. I wouldn't be at all reluctant to own a S&W Model 27 from before about 1988 as long as it passed my inspection. Nor one of the Model 28 Highway Patrolman models which is just a M27 without the extra polishing and deep bluing of the M27. In fact, if you want a range gun, find a 6" Model 28 Highway Patrolman and shoot those magnum loads. The N-Frame is well suited to the .357 magnum loads.

For the price of a Model 28 versus a Model 27, you can probably buy yourself a considerable amount of .357 ammo with the money saved. Not long ago a fellow at the range was shooing a M-28 that he'd bought for $225. Lots of scratches on the bluing and holster wear. He sent it out and had it lightly bead blasted and then coated in a grey teflon type coating. His 4" M28 was eye catching and highly accurate! And he had less than $400 in the gun.

Ruger's DA revolvers also appear to hold up well with heavy loads, though I've never owned one. Everyone who does, however says they're very happy with their gun's toughness.
 
My father owns a Model 27 circa 1975, 8 3/8" barrel in a nice oak presentation case. We've put over 1000 full hose 357 loads and many times that many 38 Spc. and it is still as tight and accurate as the day my father bought it.
 
The M19 or any K-frame magnum can have troubles with the light bullet loads. The 158 grainers, which it was designed for, will not hurt a K-frame magnum.
Magnum loads won't hurt a Python. What will wear one is fast double action shooting. This also affects the S&W N-frame .357mag revolvers. Those heavy cylinders wear the smaller parts when shot in rapid fire.
The MkIII Colts are more durable than the older actions when it comes to rapid firing and represents a good value for your dollar. The M28 will save you a few dollars over the M27 with a sacrifice in finish only.
As a range gun I doubt any quality .357 magnum on the market will not fit your needs. The DWs, Colts, S&Ws, Rugers, or even the Taurus make some fine revolvers chambered in .357 magnum.
 
A M28 is nothing but a M27 without the high polished blue finish and no checkering on the top strap and barrel rib. It was built as a highway patrolman's revolver version of the deluxe .357 Magnum Revolver (M27), thus it's name (The Highway Patrolman). They both are N-frames.
 
That's interesting. Is there any particular reason they named it the "Highway Patrolman"? Was it commonly ordered by the State Police of various states? If so why was is prefered more by the Highway Patrol than say the local police or sheriff? Or was it just to give the gun a cool professional name?
 
In the 1930s when they came on the market the .357 magnum was thought to be able to shoot thru the engine blocks of autos thus allowing the highway patrolmans to stop fleeing criminals. The revolver was marketed to those police officers.
 
I don't really have anything to add to this.
The Python is the Lamborgini of the revolver world, and like an expensive sportscar, you don't want to abuse it.

If you're like me, you really can't afford to deliberately tear a gun up, discard it and buy another, so we take care of out guns.

Just shooting most any good quality revolver won't wear them out any time soon.

What ruins ANY revolver is abuse like forcibly cocking the hammer with a yank, "Bogarting" the gun by flipping the cylinder open and shut with a flick of the wrist, and firing double action by jerking the trigger as hard as you can.

Some excellent revolvers for you would be:
A Colt Trooper Mark III, Trooper Mark V, or King Cobra.
A S&W "L" frame like the 686, or an "N" frame like the Model 28.
A Ruger GP-100.
 
Rugged? See Ruger's GP100

Doug38PR,

Python's are special to me: They're smoooth, accurate and sinfully photogenic. They also expensive and IMHO not as rugged as Ruger's GP 100 or S&W's 686/586. I've owned all three, including 3 Pythons. I regret selling my elegant Pythons; there's nothing like one. I love 'em!
As for ruggedness, Ruger's GP100 is the King. Mine has about 4,000 rounds through it and never a problem. The trigger job from Clark Custom Guns helps, too :) Also, I have a S&W 586 and I can knock down steel plates at 15 yards all day faster with this than with my Beretta 92FS! The 586 with Hogue monogrips is a "fast" .357, IMHO.
You can't miss with a Python, although keeping it in fighting trim will be a little like having an expensive Italian sportscar; there will be upkeep and there aren't many Python savy gunsmiths around. Something to consider. But I still love 'em! As for the GP100, and S&W 586/686 they're rugged and reliable AND accurate. Can't miss, great choice no matter what!

Respectfully,
Eggman
 
Ooooookay. With all that being said, I think I'm gonna go with a M-28. Cheaper and nice. Ruger's for me just don't have enough history behind them. S&W and Colt are what won America in the 19th and 20th centuries. And the older models just look nicer to me. Colt's will cost you an arm and a leg though and frankly I just don't want to spend that kind of money right now....except maybe on a AR-15 (hard to believe you have to pay the price of a heavy assault military rifle for a handgun :eek: ) Maybe one day I'll pick up a Python....but not today. Plus, I already have two Official Police guns which are the same action and frame of a python. They have a good action on them. The only difference is you can't shoot .357, but you still have that nice easy breeze through the action before the weapon discharges. :o

Thanks y'all

Doug
 
I wouldn't call $440 for a 28 cheap, but then I still think the 28 is a $250-$300 gun at best.

I have bought at least 5 Model 27s in the past 18 months and the average price was around $375. Just have to look. The 27 is twice (maybe 3X) the 28 IMO but for some insane reason there is this near cult like following for the 28 and prices have been driven up to where a 28 will rival or even surpase a 27 in price. Totally beyond my comprehension.

I have never seen a Python out of time. Neither has my gunsmith. These are deluxe guns and very nice but there are better bargains. A 6" Model 27-2 seems to be hiding around every corner and better 357 is hard to find. Should be able to bag one under $400 and you'll never regret it. That's my thinking, anyway.

Check these out.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=31909393

Here's a good shooter:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=31773793

Big one!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=31909393
 
I wouldn't call $440 for a 28 cheap, but then I still think the 28 is a $250-$300 gun at best.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm told that store is a little on the high side when it comes to prices. From what I've seen before you can usually at Gun shows you can knock off about $50-100 off the price of that store at Gun shows. But then Gun Shows are always cheaper. But really i was thinking it was a cheap gun itelf compared to say teh Python and some of these other guns that are $900+

I do like the M28 & 27. $300 does sound like a good price. Maybe I can find one at a good price at the Houston Gun Collectors show in a few weeks if I have enough cash left after I find an M1 Carbine ;)

Those are nice guns. :cool: Thanks for sharing
 
"At first I considered a Model 19 because they are nice and cheap but then found out that they are K frame guns that shake apart if you put enough full .357s through them. So that's out."

The Colt Python isn't immune to the same effects.

You need to define a few things.

What do you mean by "enough"?

How many rounds do you intend on shooting a year?

I've got 3 model 19s. The oldest, a 4" made in the early 1960s, has seen a LOT of full-bore .357 ammo through it. Yes, it's loose, but it's not "shaken apart."
 
I've got 3 model 19s. The oldest, a 4" made in the early 1960s, has seen a LOT of full-bore .357 ammo through it. Yes, it's loose, but it's not "shaken apart."
Click to expand...

Alright. I was exaggerating to make a point by saying "shaken apart." I've been told you will "shake them loose" (meaning rendering them worn out and even dangerous to use if not repaired) if you put "enough" (meaning I guess around 100-500 rounds but certainly not N frame quality) full .357 rounds through it. Enough, as has been used by dealers and smiths, indicates to me that they won't last long if you shoot .357s at the range in M-19s.

Does that better define my line of thinking?

Doug
 
Ruger Service, Security, or Speed Six. Here is my Service Six.

4.jpg
 
Durable 357

Everyone has pretty much covered the bases. S&W 27 or 28 for classics and Ruger GP-100 for brute strength. One thing to point out though from your previous posts I've followed. If you persist in "speed shooting" for "cover fire" and fast trigger work you are hammering the action of any handgun. You will be abusing it and will damage and wear it out. If you want to rip off as many shots as possible in as short a time as possible perhaps you need to investigate one of the new well made semi-autos. You'll break them too but at least you won't be destroying a classic.

In the future you'll learn that precise shot placement and steady nerves will win out over cover fire etc., unless pure luck determines an outcome. At that point a return to some of the classic revolvers will be a real joy for you.

Good luck.
 
" if you put "enough" (meaning I guess around 100-500 rounds but certainly not N frame quality) full .357 rounds through it."

I put 300 what would be considered full-bore .357 Mag. cartridges through my Model 19 4" the first time I had it to the range.

Since then I've run probably in the range of 10,000 to 15,000 rounds through it, about half in the .38 Spl. range, the other half true .357 Mag.

Any handgun that goes bad in as few as 500 rounds with SAAMI specification ammo (not some handloader's "come to God" rounds) is defective in manufacture and should be returned to the company that made it.
 
Doug Im not sure why you'd want to shoot 357's all the time for just a range gun, but if your willing to shoot more of a load of 38specials almost anything will last a life time for you. I have an older python, m19 and a few new 686's (including a new blued 586 that I truely adore shooting). If you must shoot only 357's, Id suggest buying something new with a much longer life span than something old and possibly abused.
 
As others have mentioned, there are a lot of nice Model 27 & 28s around that can be had fairly reasonably, and are great, durable guns. The first handgun I ever owned is a 6 1/2" M27 that my dad gave me for Christmas when I was a teenager, circa 1966. I put thousands of rounds of moderate to stout 357 handloads through that gun over the next couple of decades and it still looks almost as good as the day I got it, except for a bit of holster-wear. I 'retired' it, although it would still be a perfectly fine shooter, and got a 627 (Model of 1989) and used that for the next 15 years. My current 357 is a 627PC, 5", 8-shot. It is a "new" gun, not a classic, but surely is nice, I love it and consider it quite superior to it's predecessors.
 
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