Jamie Young
New member
What was the Standard Sidearm of a Soviet Officer? I don't hear to much about them. Everyone knows the AK is there standard Rifle but whats the story on there Sidearms?
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Question on Soviet Military Sidearm?
- Thread starter Jamie Young
- Start date
Mike Irwin
Staff
When the Soviet Union came into existence, the standard sidearm was the Nagant revolver in 7.62mm.
In the 1930s, a new sidearm was needed, so a modified and simplified Browning design was created, designed by Feydor Tokarev. It was designated the TT (for Tula, the arsenal, and Tokarev) 30. Slight modifications were made in a few years later and it became the TT-30.
It was chambered for a very very slightly modified Mauser 7.63 Broomhandle round, called the 7.62 Tokarev. This round was also the standard submachine gun round.
Both the Nagant and Tokarev were produced through WW II, as neither could be manufactured in the total quantities needed.
After the war the Soviets started looking for a new pistol. One design, the Steichen, was a burst capable pistol with a detachable shoulder stock and an 18-round magazine.
The one that was adopted as the standard was the Makarov, a modified Walther PP design, which fired a 9mm round that was also derived from a pre-WW II Walther project.
Hope that helps.
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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
In the 1930s, a new sidearm was needed, so a modified and simplified Browning design was created, designed by Feydor Tokarev. It was designated the TT (for Tula, the arsenal, and Tokarev) 30. Slight modifications were made in a few years later and it became the TT-30.
It was chambered for a very very slightly modified Mauser 7.63 Broomhandle round, called the 7.62 Tokarev. This round was also the standard submachine gun round.
Both the Nagant and Tokarev were produced through WW II, as neither could be manufactured in the total quantities needed.
After the war the Soviets started looking for a new pistol. One design, the Steichen, was a burst capable pistol with a detachable shoulder stock and an 18-round magazine.
The one that was adopted as the standard was the Makarov, a modified Walther PP design, which fired a 9mm round that was also derived from a pre-WW II Walther project.
Hope that helps.
------------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
Jamie Young
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Irwin:
When the Soviet Union came into existence, the standard sidearm was the Nagant revolver in 7.62mm.
In the 1930s, a new sidearm was needed, so a modified and simplified Browning design was created, designed by Feydor Tokarev. It was designated the TT (for Tula, the arsenal, and Tokarev) 30. Slight modifications were made in a few years later and it became the TT-30.
It was chambered for a very very slightly modified Mauser 7.63 Broomhandle round, called the 7.62 Tokarev. This round was also the standard submachine gun round.
Both the Nagant and Tokarev were produced through WW II, as neither could be manufactured in the total quantities needed.
After the war the Soviets started looking for a new pistol. One design, the Steichen, was a burst capable pistol with a detachable shoulder stock and an 18-round magazine.
The one that was adopted as the standard was the Makarov, a modified Walther PP design, which fired a 9mm round that was also derived from a pre-WW II Walther project.
Hope that helps.
[/quote]
Whats the reputation on These Makarov's
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When the Soviet Union came into existence, the standard sidearm was the Nagant revolver in 7.62mm.
In the 1930s, a new sidearm was needed, so a modified and simplified Browning design was created, designed by Feydor Tokarev. It was designated the TT (for Tula, the arsenal, and Tokarev) 30. Slight modifications were made in a few years later and it became the TT-30.
It was chambered for a very very slightly modified Mauser 7.63 Broomhandle round, called the 7.62 Tokarev. This round was also the standard submachine gun round.
Both the Nagant and Tokarev were produced through WW II, as neither could be manufactured in the total quantities needed.
After the war the Soviets started looking for a new pistol. One design, the Steichen, was a burst capable pistol with a detachable shoulder stock and an 18-round magazine.
The one that was adopted as the standard was the Makarov, a modified Walther PP design, which fired a 9mm round that was also derived from a pre-WW II Walther project.
Hope that helps.
[/quote]
Whats the reputation on These Makarov's
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Mike Irwin
Staff
Decently made, reliable, a little on the crude side. Ammo is about the same power as the .380 ACP.
The very best ones, in terms of fit & finsh, are the East German ones. VERY nice guns.
------------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
The very best ones, in terms of fit & finsh, are the East German ones. VERY nice guns.
------------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
Jamie Young
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Irwin:
Decently made, reliable, a little on the crude side. Ammo is about the same power as the .380 ACP.
The very best ones, in terms of fit & finsh, are the East German ones. VERY nice guns.
[/quote]
The Makorov is a 9mm right?
Does it not handle good 9mm ammo?
Decently made, reliable, a little on the crude side. Ammo is about the same power as the .380 ACP.
The very best ones, in terms of fit & finsh, are the East German ones. VERY nice guns.
[/quote]
The Makorov is a 9mm right?
Does it not handle good 9mm ammo?
9x18 is different from 9x19 Luger. Again, try http://www.makarov.com
5.45mm PSM has gained wider acceptance lately...it is thin and light and of the "always with you" school of thought.
5.45mm PSM has gained wider acceptance lately...it is thin and light and of the "always with you" school of thought.
I had read in a relatively recent edition of American Rifleman that the former SSSR might be looking into a high capacity 9x19mm pistol with a frame mounted safety for military issue. I should look for the photocopy I had made of the article that appeared in the "Dope Bag" section.
As far as I know, the standard Russian sidearm is still Makarov in 9x18mm Mak. They have also developed 9x19mm caliber pistols, but at least I have not heard that any of those designs had replaced the Makarov, possibly partly complemented the Mak. In a quite new TV documentary even Spetsnaz troops seemed mostly be using Makarovs. Why not, it is easy to carry as a backup, while primary weapons are rifles or other long guns.
Ossi
Ossi
Jamie Young
New member
I heard that the Russians are getting away from the 7.62x39 also and going for something slightly smaller than the 5.56mm anyone heard anything on this?
The Makarov (to me) is equal to most pistols
costing twice as much. Mine never fails.
Accuracy is great.Trigger after shooting
500 rounds is very smooth.Anything shoots
like this and cost 139.00 dollars I cant
call(crude)But then anything can be improved,
say like a new matte finish.!!
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costing twice as much. Mine never fails.
Accuracy is great.Trigger after shooting
500 rounds is very smooth.Anything shoots
like this and cost 139.00 dollars I cant
call(crude)But then anything can be improved,
say like a new matte finish.!!
------------------
Apple a Day
New member
The Makarov is a very good pistol. The problem with it is that it holds only 8 rnds (hi-cap holds only 10 or 12) and the Makarov bullet is around 9.2x18mm, which puts it between .380 and .38 special in muzzle energy. The Makarov was in military production from 1951 to 1994 if memory serves.
Since then there have been several new models developed, PM-443 through -445 or beyond. They have names like "Raven", have composite materials, and are chambered for 9x19mm. Scoot over to www.makarov.com , check out the archives. I am spouting off the top of my head. Probably in ten minutes I'll remember something else but if you have any eastern European weapons questions that's where I'd ask.
Regards
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Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Since then there have been several new models developed, PM-443 through -445 or beyond. They have names like "Raven", have composite materials, and are chambered for 9x19mm. Scoot over to www.makarov.com , check out the archives. I am spouting off the top of my head. Probably in ten minutes I'll remember something else but if you have any eastern European weapons questions that's where I'd ask.
Regards
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Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
A Russian guy I know says that the Makarovs are strictly to pistol whip people. The real choice of the Russian police is the Krinkov. They're issued both, but rely on the Krinkov above all. As others have said the military is transitioning to a 9mm. Apparently the winner is a polymer frame 15 rounds 9mm made by Izvetah.
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So many pistols, so little money.
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So many pistols, so little money.
Mike Irwin
Staff
SodaPop,
The Soviets started the switch to the 5.45x39 back in the 1970s.
Today in the Russian army I think the last of the 7.62x39 squad automatic weapons are being phased out, and the 7.62 is going to be a memory with the military, but will still be used with militia troops for some years.
------------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
The Soviets started the switch to the 5.45x39 back in the 1970s.
Today in the Russian army I think the last of the 7.62x39 squad automatic weapons are being phased out, and the 7.62 is going to be a memory with the military, but will still be used with militia troops for some years.
------------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Deleting double post. Sorry.
[This message has been edited by Mike Irwin (edited June 24, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Mike Irwin (edited June 24, 2000).]
Will Beararms
New member
The Makarov origins are communist folklore. Near the endof WWII, the Germans were running out of materials. They were working on the 9x18 Unltra to utilize less lead and metal. The Russians captured this info and the rest is history.
The Makarov, while extremely reliable and durable is nothing more than a Walther with improvements. Likewise, the Russians floated this bull about a tank driver named Kalashnikov inventing an assault weapon when in reality, this was copied from the Sturmgehwehr (Spelling?) the Germans developed under Hitler's nose near the end of the war.
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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
The Makarov, while extremely reliable and durable is nothing more than a Walther with improvements. Likewise, the Russians floated this bull about a tank driver named Kalashnikov inventing an assault weapon when in reality, this was copied from the Sturmgehwehr (Spelling?) the Germans developed under Hitler's nose near the end of the war.
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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
Don't forget the genuis of Russian arms designers. The Makarov, like the AK, is a home bred design. It is to a Walther PP what Cro-Magnon is to modern man. Compare the two designs side by side and you immediately notice that while they may look similar they are entirely different. The Makarov's design is a lot simpler, takes less parts, and is much more robust.
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So many pistols, so little money.
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So many pistols, so little money.