Question on seating primers

I use the Lyman hand primer. Works good, relaxing, easy to use and I kinda like sitting in the easy chair watching tv while seating primers. In my opinion it is far better than messing with primer feed problems on the press.
 
Only problem I encountered , is when reloading Herters cases, they are a little tighter than the others, especially with CCI or Winchester primers.
 
Thanks for the replies. I was researching this on another forum and several people said that they actually grab the press handle with their right hand and grab the left frame with their left hand to give them enough leverage to seat the primers. I don't need to or want to put that much force on the press.

One guy actually said he was thinking of attaching a bar type handle next to the bench to grab with his left hand to give him more leverage. Again, I don't think this is a good idea. I do not see the point of send back the press just because it happens two or three times in a 100 rounds. I doubt it's the press since most of the time it works perfectly. Most likely it's a dirty primer pocket or a tight case. A few people mentioned Sellier and Belloit or Herters brass being little tighter. I have shot both brands so some of my cases are these brands. I guess I can start checking headstamps to see if it only occurs on certain brands.

Since the primer only cost a few cents and the cases about the same I suppose it makes more sense to just pitch any cases that do not seat with normal pressure. I guess what bothers me the most is when I finish loading a tube full of 100 primers I put the ammo in a reused ammo tray and factory box, label the box with the bullet type, weight, powder and charge data and date. I just hate seeing that tray with one or two empty pockets in it.
 
It sounds like you are not inclined to bother fixing the brass it unless those empty spaces really bother you. And unless you shoot in a controlled environment, you'll get those anyway by losing brass in the grass, but I understand the annoyance.

The Dillon 600 is a good way to ensure all your brass will work evenly without turning reloading into an isometric exercise for your handle working arm, but it's not free. RCBS also makes a bench mounted swager that is less expensive, but I've never tried one and don't know how it compares. Less expensive and a bit slower and less beefy is their press mount tool. If you own a spare single-stage press, this might be a good application for it.

But if all that seems like more bother than it's worth since you will lose some cases anyway, you might want to consider a gauge. If you don't own a set of pin gauges, you can make one from a drill bit. The standard diameter dimension is 0.1740" with a tolerance of either ±0.0005" (Winchester) or ±0.0004" (Remington). If you have a micrometer that resolves tenths of a thousandth, you take a #16 drill and check the shaft diameter (nominally 0.1770, but often a couple thousandths under). This can be chucked backward in a drill press and fine tuned with wet/dry paper played shoe-shine style over it until the diameter comes down to 0.1736" or wherever else you want it. I would test this as I approach the 0.1740" diameter with a known good case and a known tight case. You want it to fit into the former but not the latter. It then becomes a quick inspection reject gauge for finding tight primer pockets.
 
Quote:
As it is now the shell plate does tend to reverse direction slightly (about 1/16th of and inch) when I push the handle backwards to prime a round. Is this normal. (?)

There is no one home on this one. No one in the bump and cam over world of reloading has a clue what you are talking about.
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The effort you are applying is not being used to seat a primer. Then there is the .0625" or 1/16 of an inch reverse of the shell plate. I have mentioned my Rock Chuckers, my Rock Chuckers do not cam over, I always add 'that is nice', BECAUSE I use my Rock Chuckers to run my Piggy Back 11 presses.

There is no one home on this one. No one in the bump and cam over world of reloading has a clue what you are talking about.
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I do not see the point of send back the press just because it happens two or three times in a 100 rounds. I doubt it's the press since most of the time it works perfectly. Most likely it's a dirty primer pocket or a tight case.
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Manufacturers take primers and priming very seriously, I hope there is nothing I have said that would cause you not to do the same.

F. Guffey
 
The shell plate should not move backwards when you seat a primer. If it does that is because the primer punch is misaligned with the flash hole (shellplate is over advanced) and the act of seating the primer is forcing it into alignment. You may want to check indexing pawls and adjust as needed. If the indexing is good then there is another misalignment issue in play.
 
The shell plate should not move backwards when you seat a primer.
Click to expand...

The effort you are applying is not being used to seat a primer. Then there is the .0625" or 1/16 of an inch reverse of the shell plate. I have mentioned my Rock Chuckers, my Rock Chuckers do not cam over, I always add 'that is nice', BECAUSE I use my Rock Chuckers to run my Piggy Back 11 presses.
Click to expand...

No one in the bump and cam over world of reloading has a clue what you are talking about.
Click to expand...

F. Guffey
 
problem solved

Well after reading some of the replies I decided to do some investigative research.

I went home and got the cases that I could not get seated properly. Some I had set on a shelf on my reloading bench and a few I tossed in a trash bucket in disgust. I realized of course that I shouldn't just toss them in the trash so I dug them out.

I was starting to think that since it is so intermittent it is not the press that is the problem. I did have one primer in a bunch that I noticed had a slight burr on the edge where it was not properly cut to length. I unfortunately didn't think to toss it in the scrap and loaded it into the primer pickup tube. It of coarse caused a jam in the tube that I had to carefully clear by pushing a rod down the tube.

So I was thinking maybe this whole lot of primers (Winchester small pistol) is plagued by burred edges.

Anyways, I looked at the head stamp on the eight cases that I have that I cannot get to the primers to seat into and I found that seven of the eight are Herters (Cabela's store brand). So my solution to this problem is going to be to presort my brass and remove all the Herters cases. The other case is a two letter stamp, something like R P or O P. I may just sort those cases out too while I'm at it. I can either toss the Herters cases or invest in a primer pocket reamer I suppose and try to fix the cases.

When I get a chance I will measure a Herters case pocket verses some of the others to see if they are undersize, which is what I am expecting to find.

The fact that almost all the problem cases are Herters leads me to believe this is the problem since the brass I am loading is only about 10 precent Herters with about 30 percent Federal and the rest various other head stamps, yet almost all the suspect cases are Herters, not one Federal case has been an issue.

Edited to add;

Most of the brass I am loading is once fired from my gun. I started saving my brass at the indoor range two years ago in anticipation of getting a reloading press. I normally buy Federal or Winchester, which ever is cheaper. If I go to Cabelas I pick up Herters or PMC or whatever is on sale. I also recently started buying Perfecta at Walmart which is their store brand I guess. The box says Tula Ammunition, but made in Italy.
Some of the brass is range brass from IDPA matches I have worked, but the last few matches there didn't seem to be to many people shooting 40 caliber so there isn't a lot of already reloaded ammo in the mix. It's mostly once fired from my gun.
 
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I normally buy Federal or Winchester, which ever is cheaper. If I go to Cabelas I pick up Herters or PMC or whatever is on sale. I also recently started buying Perfecta at Walmart which is their store brand I guess. The box says Tula Ammunition, but made in Italy.
Some of the brass is range brass from IDPA matches I have worked, but the last few matches there didn't seem to be to many people shooting 40 caliber so there isn't a lot of already reloaded ammo in the mix. It's mostly once fired from my gun.
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There is a discipline among some reloaders, they sort cases by head stamp.

F. Guffey
 
It's interesting to notice that most compatibility issues involve reloading foreign
brass,S&B,Tula,Fiocchi and so on.They don't have to use SAAMI standards
in Russia and their tooling is most certainly metric so there is some accuracy lost in approximation,a pocket uniformer might be a good idea when reloading a lot of those.
 
The shell plate should not move backwards when you seat a primer.
Click to expand...

No one in the bump and cam over world of reloading has a clue what you are talking about.
Click to expand...

Well after reading some of the replies I decided to do some investigative research.
Click to expand...

pocket uniformer might be a good idea when reloading a lot of those
Click to expand...

There is a discipline among some reloaders
Click to expand...

Has anyone put any thought into determining why the shell plate is backing up?

F. Guffey
 
I sort by head stamp and so far have never had an issue like this. By mixing head stamps your introducing some variables into your process. I'm not saying you can't but take it for what its worth.
 
I shoot the crap out of Winchester primers...
And the issue explained back a few posts isn't JUST with the small pistol.

I just went through a out 5K WSR.
Some natural brass, some nickel plated.

Dillon primer tubes HATE burrs, which I had one or two about every 300 primers.
It's a slow, tedious task to stop everything, clean out the dump tube, clear the burr/jam, put everything back together again and get running in the swing of things again...

For some reason, I had some nickel plates that would simply NOT feed down the primer tube on the machine...
I had to keep down force on the primer follower rod, just a little,
To get those suckers to feed.

They went through the sorter/unstacker/feeder wheel just fine,
They just did NOT like that tube.
The dump tubes worked fine.

------

Then came those wonderful FORIGN made 5.56 brass with the short primer pocket!
Bang along for 75 or 100 rounds, then hit a shallow pocket and the primer crushes...
Nothing like taking freshly minted rounds apart, trying to get the swagger to hammer the pocket UP to a standard length,
Then see if the high pressure beating worked,
Or you wasted your time AND another primer...

-----

Mavrick,
You can't count on bulk brass of any kind being 'Consistant', head stamp or not.

Head stamp will give you an idea,
But you have no idea which machine that brass came off of,
If its a mixed lot, if some sat around in storage until they ran some more to make it worth packaging so its mixed with new production the presses might have cranked out a little different, ect.

With once fired brass, you have no idea of the age, plant, machine or even the load that went through it the first shot...

If you are bench shooting, CHECK EVERYTHING, EVERY CASE.
Track it all!

I'm sport shooting, a ton of that stuff isn't important.
I can't tell much difference in mixed brass with non compressed loads,
It's pretty much all more accurate than factory loaded rounds,
And it saves a ton of work for me.

There is everything in between,
Some guys trim for EVERY loading, some guys use a Go/NoGo gauge and only trim when the case gets too long,
I trim everything ONCE, to minimum, and never mess with it again.

It takes all kinds!
 
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F. Guffy, thanks for all your input. I assume when you say bump and cam over your referring to Dillion presses?

Anyways in regards to the question of why the shellplate is backing up when priming, this is/was caused by the force I was putting on the handle to attempt to seat the primers in the bad brass.

I have seen some people with Hornady AP Presses say they actually use their other hand to grab the press frame to give them more leverage.

In the Hornady tech support FAQ's the say the backing up issue is most often caused by using to much force to seat primers. The fix is simple enough, it requires a slight adjustment on the left drive pawl that indexes the press.

I have already adjusted mine back to correct the issue. From now on I am NOT going to apply that much force. If the primer doesn't seat I'll just scrap the primer and case. The primer and case are to inexpensive to bother messing up the press adjustment.

Hopefully sorting out the brass and reaming the primer pockets will take care of the problem. Once I get all the brass reloaded once this problem should go away unless I add more range brass in, and I intend to keep my reloaded brass separate from any new once fired or range brass.
 
F. Guffy, thanks for all your input. I assume when you say bump and cam over your referring to Dillion presses?
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No, I am talking about reloaders as in members of reloading forums, to some everything is a head space gage and everything has head space.

Anyways in regards to the question of why the shell plate is backing up when priming
Click to expand...

I have seen some people with Hornady AP Presses say they actually use their other hand to grab the press frame to give them more leverage.
Click to expand...

I am the fan of crawling under the table/bench when checking on problems and causes. The part I am having trouble with is the 'more leverage'. I believe the tech support could be a little confused.

Thanks for the response.

F. Guffey
 
The part I am having trouble with is the 'more leverage'. I believe the tech support could be a little confused
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.
He probably was,who knows?
I think that part of the problem could be that on press priming as a general rule
takes place at the weakest point of the cycle and not everyone can apply enough force to properly seat all primers,that is probably why some operators
brace themselves.On some press types it is possible to gain some mechanical
advantage by setting handle travel stop several inches beyond top center to
resolve that issue.The Lee Ram Prime is an option,here there's full mechanical gain,the disadvantage being it is a separate operation and not easily integrated to turrets or progressives.
 
He probably was,who knows?
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I do not know, I was hoping someone would step away from the computer, find their press then cycle it to get an ideal what sequence the press was going through when the primer is being installed.

I keep saying my Rock Chuckers do not cam over, I continue to add the part where I use the Rock Chucker press to operate my Piggy Back 11 attachments. It seems logical someone would ask themselves: Self? "What is it about the Rock Chucker and the Piggy Back 11 I do not understand?".

F. Guffey
 
I ended up geting the RCBS primer pocket swager dies after running into similar problems with a bucket of military .308s of which about half were crimped. If you end up with enough problem brass and its worthwhile, the primer pocket swager will fix your Herters cases as well.


I use a single stage system, and when I used to prime off the press on the upstroke, it was a pain to seat large primers so I used a Lyman Ram Prime Die. Even though I use a hand primer these days, I still like the ram prime for large rifle cases as all primers are seated exactly the same.
 
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