Question on reloading die interchangability of press threads.

Not to beat the dead horse.......:rolleyes:


I use the FCD also in the same manner as Hardcase and noelf.....I really like not having to fiddle with trying to get both things tweaked using the same die.

BUT....I'm loading .38 special really long in order that .38's run effectively through my level action '92 for SASS. I'm seating the bullet only at 1.50 OAL (which has been discussed ad nauseum here, so I won't go there again). Because I'm not crimping in the crimp groove, I like the FCD because I can really crimp hard in a separate step to get it to "bite" (for lack of a better term) into the side of the lead bullet.

Could I load without the FCD? Sure, but I find for my particular application, it makes things easier.
 
Thanks for all the helpful info guys. Just a couple more questions.

When the term "factory crimp" is used, does that refer to the close together multiple little teeny vertical crimp lines that go around the crimp line of the case mouth seen on some factory loaded rounds? That of course looks different from the smooth, lineless taper crimp I've always used when reloading. And if those multiple little vertical crimp lines around the case mouth is what is known as a "factory crimp"....do any of you see an advantage to that kind of multiple line crimp over a lineless taper crimp?

Or (as I am thinking in theory) compared to a smooth uniform taper crimp, would that extra multiple line crimp incur extra molecule compression stress upon the metal of the case mouth making the case mouth edge brittle quicker and either need annealing or trimming sooner after several reloads?



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Bill Akins said:
When the term "factory crimp" is used, does that refer to the close together multiple little teeny vertical crimp lines that go around the crimp line of the case mouth seen on some factory loaded rounds?
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It's my understanding from reading too many FCD threads on THR's handloading section that the FCD is a taper crimp only. The teeny lines won't be caused by an FCD, at least the not the one made by Lee.
 
Mine just leaves four extruded bumps. They're very hard to see and it doesn't seem to matter how far you turn the die down the crimp won't get any tighter.
 
I don't have any Lyman equipment but I use a Lee press and have a couple of RCBS dies. The main gripe I see about Lee dies is they don't have a set screw for the lock ring. It's held in place by an o ring but i actually prefer it over the set screw.
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I really like the Hornady split clamp type rings. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=391359

They never move and I don't have to worry about a little lead pellet falling out so that the set screw damages the threads.
 
I really like the Hornady split clamp type rings
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I completely forgot about those! I have a couple of sets of Hornady dies and I really do like those locking rings. In my mind (such as it is), they are the perfect solution.
 
I believe those are what I bought to replace the rings on my lee dies. Problem with them are that they won't fit well alongside other dies on my 4 hole lee turret press. I don't remember the cut sides for use with a wrench though. I'll have to look at them again.
 
I placed a phone order with Cabelas today for the .45 Colt Lee carbide dies.
They were $27.99 and including shipping it was $36.94 total. Can't beat the price for a new carbide set. Here's the link in case anyone here needs a set. All their Lee carbide pistol calibers are on sale so just scroll down until you see the specific caliber you need.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Lee-Carbide-Pistol-Dies/731713.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3DLee%2Bcarbide%2Bdies%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts&Ntt=Lee+carbide+dies&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products



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My Lee .45 Colt carbide dies from Cabela's just arrived today. Haven't had a chance to check them out real good yet. Now I need some .45 Colt brass, some projectiles and more primers. Already have some smokeless powder for my other cartridges I reload and a few packages of CCI primers I already had that I can use until I get more primers....which I know I will need.

I'll probably set the dies up in my Lyman "Spar T" turret within the next few days. Then set up and adjust my powder thrower to throw the proper charge so I'll already be set when I get the brass and projectiles. I expect to do a lot of .45 Colt cartridge shooting and reloading for my two new Tanner Sports Center Uberti Cattleman .45 Colt "Hombres". Just have to get all my reloading components together that I need for that cartridge.

Anyone know where the best deal is to get either new or once fired .45 Colt brass is? Unprimed or spent primers makes no difference to me with once fired brass because my resizing die pushes out any spent primers that may be in them anyway.

Also what .45 Colt projectile grain weight do any of you recommend and what .45 Colt powder charges for say "bullseye" or "Winchester western 296" smokeless powders? I've got several reloading manuals that I go by, but just wanted to know what some of you may use for your .45 Colt cartridges. I'd like to find out more about the regular full power smokeless loads as well as the medium loads and also lower powered smokeless cowboy action loads. I've done a lot of reloading of .44 mag, .357 mag, .38 special, 9mm, 45 ACP, but never reloaded .45 Colt before,.....so this is a new cartridge for me.


Oh, bye the way, I have 60 .44 magnum brass, once fired (I reloaded them last time they were shot) cartridges I'll swap to someone for a like number of .45 Colt brass. I don't have my .44 mag revolver anymore so I'll swap them to someone who could use them and has some .45 Colt brass I could use.








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Starline purportedly makes their brass a lil' bit thicker than some of the others. I personally use Starline brass and thus far I'm happy with it. You can order Starline brass directly from their website.

As far as the projectile weight. 250 grain RNFP lead is very popular. You may use 11 grains of Unique for a decent charge.

Seeing this is a BP forum go for some BP loads! :D
 
There really is only one powder that is acceptable for 45 Colt and that would be Black Powder. The problem is, once you start using it you'll find yourself putting it in just about everything!!;)

Having given my two cents worth here's a recommondation for that nasty smokeless stuff:

Somebody in another forum helped me "Discover" Trailboss. The stuff is great for low pressure loads like the old original Black Powder cartridges i.e. 44-40, 45 Colt & 38 Special. It's very fluffy so double charging is almost impossible. Also IMR has data that will allow you to create your own load safely no matter the bullet weight or composition. Basically the stuff is like loading Black Powder in that you can just fill up the case (safely), seat the bullet and go. This IMRPowder.com link is a 2 page pdf file that enlightened me to the ease with which this stuff loads. Although I still stand by my original powder recommendation (Swiss or Goex), Trailboss is what I use exclusively for loads that can't have the correct powder for whatever reason, like shooting at an indoor range.

Also keep in mind that 45 Colt for the most part is not a cartridge that gets re-sized before reloading. Given the low pressure of 45 Colt (either Black Powder or smokeless), the brass will not normally expand out far enough to make re-sizing necessary. I've got 45 Colt Black Powder brass and 44-40 smokeless brass that has never seen the inside of a re-sizing die. By not re-sizing you will cut down on the amount of "blow-back" in the cylinder and your muzzle velocities will be slightly higher and more consistant. Also, the gun tends to stay cleaner and in the case of Black Powder, cooler.

When you get your brass, I would however recommend re-sizing the first time you load the cartridges. If it's been used by somebody else there's no telling what they fired it out of and if it's new we all know that it isn't always round when it gets to you.

One other thing that I've "discovered" recently is Bear Creek Bullets, they are moly-lubed lead and you can get them for a decent price in 500 count boxes. I only use them for smokeless but I've been feeding them to everything from 9mm to 44 Special for the last six months.

By the way, did I mention that the only correct powder for 45 Colt is BLACK??
 
I usually load BP as well. I use a 250gr RNFP (beeswax/crisco) lube in the grease groove over 35gr(vol) fffg. I've used 30gr fffg and a 1/8" lubed wad under the bullet as well. I prefer wadless, and a pretty obvious crimp... +1 on Tightgroup. Allows me to use 250gr RNFP with smokeless lube. Trailboss has almost no fouling. I've also used 6gr Unique with same 250gr RNFP bullet for a low pressure range load. I used the older (Hercules) Unique and it's quite dirty.

I don't have a crony, but I think I get higher FPS with the BP.
 
Thanks for the suggestions fellas. I have a few .45 auto rim cartridge cases left over from my days of owning a S&W 1917 revolver. As most of you no doubt already know, the .45 auto rim is exactly the same as the .45 ACP only instead of a cannelure groove for the extractor and chambering on the case mouth, it has a rim instead.

I'm wondering if I could use those also in my Uberti Hombre. Kind of like using the .45 ACP in a .45 Colt Ruger that has the extra .45 ACP cylinder. Should be about the same shouldn't it, only with a rim instead of chambering on the case mouth? Projectile has to jump a bit further to engage the forcing cone, but it would with the .45 ACP also.

I'm also wondering if I can reload the .45 auto rim with my new Lee .45 Colt dies? Are the rims on the .45 auto rim the same thickness and diameter as on the .45 Colt?





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Rims on the 45 Autorim are .09" and on 45Colt are .06". Diagonally, the rim is about .004 bigger on the Autorim as well. 45 Autorim has is a slightly tapered case and the 45Colt is straight walled. Case mouth on the 45 Autorim is a bit smaller than the 45Colt. Not saying all these factors would keep the Autorim cases from working though.
 
Thanks for that info Noelf2. I tried fitting the .45 auto rims in my Hombre and they wouldn't fit because the rim is just a little bit too thick and hits against the loading gate arm when I try to turn the cylinder. Otherwise they fit fine.

But I remembered that I used to own an old Webley .455 and many years ago I had chucked some .45 auto rims in my lathe and turned the front side of the rim down so they would fire in my old Webley. I had trimmed the rim on the front side of the rim facing the case mouth, not the back side where the primer goes. Just put them in my lathe and held a file against the rim til it was the thinner thickness I needed. Worked great in my old 1915 birds head grips Webley and I had made up seven of them and re-found them again this evening. I dug those old .45 auto rim trimmed rim cases out and low and behold they fit in my Hombre just fine.

I guess we could call my altered .45 auto rims...... .45 Colt shorts. Makes sense to me.

Next thing I'm going to do is to load them up using the .454 round ball I use in my black powder revolvers......just for fun to see how that works.

I'll try to post some pics of that when I do it.



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Next thing I'm going to do is to load them up using the .454 round ball I use in my black powder revolvers......just for fun to see how that works.
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I did that a while back and plan to do it again. Worked well in 45 colt cases, but it's tricky to get a good crimp on the ball. At first I didn't crimp them at all, and they didn't seem to walk out of the cases during recoil, but just in case, I started crimping them. I used .451 ball so I didn't have to bell the case mouth much. .454 should work fine though.
 
Good idea Noel2 on using the .451 balls so to not have to bell the case mouth as much. I have some .451's too so I think I'll use them instead of the .454's I had planned on using. I might even make a a few black powder loads just to see how that works in the trimmed rim .45 auto rims. I wonder if anyone else here has ever trimmed the thickness of a .45 auto rim's rim to make it work in a Webley or a .45 Colt. It only takes a few seconds to trim on my lathe.

I've done a few trimmings and form firings in the past to make obsolete cartridges that were not readily available. Kind of fun just to see if you can make a cartridge from another cartridge. Especially if it's hard to find a particular obsolete cartridge case you need. Been some years since I've done it though. I once drilled out the pin in the primer pocket of a Berdan cartridge case, reamed the primer pocket to accept a boxer primer and pressed a boxer primer in it and it fired just fine. For exactly that reason I still save my 7.62x39 Berdan cases. Never know when the time might come that they may be all you have left to work with. I can drive out the berdan primer using a tight fitting steel rod on my loading press with a little water in the case. The rod goes snugly into the case and hydraulically pops the berdan primer out. Then drill out the pin in the primer pocket, ream the pocket, and you have converted a berdan primed case to a boxer primed case. It works fine, just takes a little time.

Many years ago I had a Steyr Hahn model 1912 semi auto pistol that fired a longer case 9mm than the standard parabellum that I made some cartridges for but I can't remember what cartridges I used to make them out of. Seems like it might have been 9mm Browning long but it been so long I'm not sure.


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noelf2 said:
I used .451 ball so I didn't have to bell the case mouth much. .454 should work fine though.
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Making "Gallery Loads" is an excellent way to get rid of .451's that don't get used for much of anything else. You will probably find that if you don't re-size, the .454's will also almost just drop in without too much bell on the cartridge case.

For 45 Colt I've been using exclusively Dash Caliber's 150gr EPP Ultra Gamers instead of round balls. They are a Big Lube bullet that comes with BP lube already on 'em. The price is great too.
 
If you're just funnin' around then 0.451 would work. After all, a gallery load isn't going to be a precision cartridge. For better accuracy and efficiency you'll want to use a ball that is as close to the groove diameter of your barrel as possible. The limiting factor is usually the chamber throats in your modern .45 Colt firearms. This is commonly 0.4525. On the antique .45 Colt firearms this is likely 0.4545 or for some there isn't a chamber throat. Ergo, a 0.454 round ball would be better than a 0.451 RB. With a larger ball there will be less opportunity for blow-by and possible resulting leading. My $0.02 worth. ;)
 
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