You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Question - "move vs. engage"
- Thread starter shield20
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Shooting at a fleeing armed subject is a tough one to call and there is no yes or no answer.
If the BG is fleeing, one might argue to let him go as that removes the threat from you.
Shooting him does not guarantee an instant stop (except on the Internet). Having been shot and not disabled the BG, rather than fleeing may stay in the fight and kill you or a bystander.
As a heuristic, I would state that if the BG is going full blast out the door - wave bye - bye. If his or her movements towards the door indicate that you are still engaged, that's different.
If he is going out the front door, the back door looks appealing to me.
Certainly, don't chase him. Folks have done that and been prosecuted.
If the BG is fleeing, one might argue to let him go as that removes the threat from you.
Shooting him does not guarantee an instant stop (except on the Internet). Having been shot and not disabled the BG, rather than fleeing may stay in the fight and kill you or a bystander.
As a heuristic, I would state that if the BG is going full blast out the door - wave bye - bye. If his or her movements towards the door indicate that you are still engaged, that's different.
If he is going out the front door, the back door looks appealing to me.
Certainly, don't chase him. Folks have done that and been prosecuted.
banditt007
New member
Nice work to the glock owner.
video again isnt the brightest idea but its here, and i watch/enjoyed it.
3/3 isnt too shabby especially given that your heart is ready to explode at that point.
video again isnt the brightest idea but its here, and i watch/enjoyed it.
3/3 isnt too shabby especially given that your heart is ready to explode at that point.
Glenn,
How do you determine the bad guys intent (armed with a gun no less)? How can us regular folks tell the bad guys intent in microseconds? The motel clerk had only enough time to fire three shots, hardly enough time (for me anyway) to figure out the robbers intent. What indicators would cause you to believe that the bad guy wouldn't turn and fire? What guarantees that the bad guy will adhere to those indicators? While I will not pursue, my rule of thumb is if armed with a gun and having threatened me with it as in a robbery/assault, I will fire until he is gone from sight just like the clerk did. I wouldn't have stepped in front of the counter like he did rather duck down behind it while covering the front door and calling police.
I believe the chances are greater that he will turn and fire or reengage if I stop shooting than they are for me getting shot after wounding the bad guy causing him to return fire IMO.
As a heuristic, I would state that if the BG is going full blast out the door - wave bye - bye. If his or her movements toward the door indicate that you are still engaged, that's different
How do you determine the bad guys intent (armed with a gun no less)? How can us regular folks tell the bad guys intent in microseconds? The motel clerk had only enough time to fire three shots, hardly enough time (for me anyway) to figure out the robbers intent. What indicators would cause you to believe that the bad guy wouldn't turn and fire? What guarantees that the bad guy will adhere to those indicators? While I will not pursue, my rule of thumb is if armed with a gun and having threatened me with it as in a robbery/assault, I will fire until he is gone from sight just like the clerk did. I wouldn't have stepped in front of the counter like he did rather duck down behind it while covering the front door and calling police.
Shooting him does not guarantee an instant stop (except on the Internet). Having been shot and not disabled the BG, rather than fleeing may stay in the fight and kill you or a bystander.
I believe the chances are greater that he will turn and fire or reengage if I stop shooting than they are for me getting shot after wounding the bad guy causing him to return fire IMO.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
You determine his actions by using your brain and eyes together. I think I can see if someone is running away from me. I grant you that it is a hard skill to pick up just shooting at paper targets.
If one cannot determine if someone has his back to you and running out the door - well, not much can be done about that.
How about this - you maintain the sight picture on the center of the back and if you see the person turn - you shoot him.
I will opine again that if the bad guy is clearly leaving - let him go. You do what you want.
If one cannot determine if someone has his back to you and running out the door - well, not much can be done about that.
How about this - you maintain the sight picture on the center of the back and if you see the person turn - you shoot him.
I will opine again that if the bad guy is clearly leaving - let him go. You do what you want.
I'll try to get back on topic...God I hate stupid ninja rambos
I guess it's a range and threat ID issue. Close range and you know your threat you engage. Further range or it is unclear exactly where the shooter is you should move or take cover. Most CCW owners in a close up robbery situtation are better of engaging hoping they got the element of surprise on their side. Moving first would throw up a red flag to the BG, and your draw would be more noticed. I would engage first and move second.
I guess it's a range and threat ID issue. Close range and you know your threat you engage. Further range or it is unclear exactly where the shooter is you should move or take cover. Most CCW owners in a close up robbery situtation are better of engaging hoping they got the element of surprise on their side. Moving first would throw up a red flag to the BG, and your draw would be more noticed. I would engage first and move second.
It seems like this one has plenty of differing opinions. Suffice it to say, there's never going to be a perfect answer to this one, in ANY scenario, really. It's a true compromise.
I guess I'd have to echo the statement above, that I'd try to retain the element of surprise close up and engage THEN move, or at least draw then move while engaging. But far away, I'd size it up, and if escape or hiding and waiting it out is a valid possibility, then that'd be the way I'd go.
I guess I'd have to echo the statement above, that I'd try to retain the element of surprise close up and engage THEN move, or at least draw then move while engaging. But far away, I'd size it up, and if escape or hiding and waiting it out is a valid possibility, then that'd be the way I'd go.
Glenn,
My point Glenn was that at any point in the confrontation the bad guy can turn and fire. Your suggestion is to surrender the edge in the conflict against an adversary who at any moment can turn and fire, bringing the possibility of death to you. I have to respectfully disagree. One thing is a bad guy armed with a weapon other than a gun. The gun changes everything IMO. I cannot risk a retreating shot or any other snap shot which with Murphy's law would hit me in the only unprotected vital area on my body. Further I cannot risk not firing and allowing the bad guy to regain confidence and reengage.
BTW, I don't only shoot still paper targets. I shoot still and moving paper targets of varying shapes, sizes, etc.. Steel of all shapes and sizes including movers. Probably the best of all, balloons, filled with helium they move erratically. I try to do all I can to practice other than at a still paper target.
You determine his actions by using your brain and eyes together. I think I can see if someone is running away from me. I grant you that it is a hard skill to pick up just shooting at paper targets.
If one cannot determine if someone has his back to you and running out the door - well, not much can be done about that.
My point Glenn was that at any point in the confrontation the bad guy can turn and fire. Your suggestion is to surrender the edge in the conflict against an adversary who at any moment can turn and fire, bringing the possibility of death to you. I have to respectfully disagree. One thing is a bad guy armed with a weapon other than a gun. The gun changes everything IMO. I cannot risk a retreating shot or any other snap shot which with Murphy's law would hit me in the only unprotected vital area on my body. Further I cannot risk not firing and allowing the bad guy to regain confidence and reengage.
BTW, I don't only shoot still paper targets. I shoot still and moving paper targets of varying shapes, sizes, etc.. Steel of all shapes and sizes including movers. Probably the best of all, balloons, filled with helium they move erratically. I try to do all I can to practice other than at a still paper target.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.