Question for the LEO's

B

bossman

New member
I know around here the rural areas are more open to CWW whereas the City LEO's tend to frown on it. I know alot has to do with the individual officer and civilian but does department dictate policy or is up to the officer?

Also I see another thread here asking how many guns do CCW. Would you take a different mindset if someone had two or three guns on them as say to just one? Do you look differently at a 5 shot .38, more of a defensive gun I would think, compared to a 17 shot say 9mm ? Or is a gun a gun. Thanks.
 
I've been a cop for nearly 30 years. I began in police work on April 24, 1981. I've worked my entire career in a rural/semi-rural setting in north and central Louisiana. Let me try to answer your questions.

Rural cops tend to understand that lots of folks carry guns. Either in their cars or hidden about their person (CCW). I work in an extremely gun-friendly state and have to adjust my actions on the job to a level that some urban cops wouldn't understand. For example, whenever I make a traffic stop, I assume that there is a firearm in the vehicle. It's not a problem, but the probabilities are firmly on my side. Lots of folks have a gun in the car. Especially in the winter, when hunting season is open. Lots of guns. Pistols, shotguns, rifle, you name it, I've seen it all.

Do I care how many guns you personally carry? Not particularly, unless there is a reason for me to care. Besides, CCW is just that; concealed. If you have the gun concealed I'll never know you're carrying. I won't know if you're carrying one, or two, or a half-dozen.

SO, why the question? If it's concealed and no one knows you've got it? If it's not concealed, then it's open carry and frankly you'd look like an idiot with one gun on each hip and one tucked in your waistband. Still not technically against the law in this state, but you might draw attention to yourself that you might not want.

Use common sense when carrying. If you're trying to make a fashion statement, do it in a place where it won't alarm the general public.
 
I also served as a police officer for a few years. In a very dense metropolitan city. The official line of city government was then and is even more now. Civilians have no need for firearms.

I'd have to admit that most other cops I've known do have a problem with armed civilians. I dont know why... but it seems they feel threatened by honest armed citizens.

However, I personally have, nor have I ever had any problem with an armed civilian populace. I believe that most people in my city were armed despite the law. If a citizen in my city was found to be armed with two handguns by me, and they had a valid carry permit... I might ask why two... then probably procede to a conversation about guns, and tactics.

As I see it... It comes down to this. The American civilian citizen has a GOD given right to own firearms. This right is codified, enumerated, and protected by the Constitution of the United States. Further each and every police officer is sworn to protect these same citizens and to preserve their constitutional rights.

The problem is this... As we live in a republic, and choose our REPRESENTATION (not leaders) by the democratic proscess, these representitives bestow on us their own political ideals despite our wishes to the contrary.

And we the people with the interest of justice and in care for the men and women who are sworn to protect us bestow upon them extraordinary powers. It seems that these people, the police have become a political entity unto themselves. In sum and substance the police seem to have forgotten who they work for. Much like our elected representitives. And like our elected representitives some police seem to be forcing their own agenda's upon us under the guise (sp) of officer safety.

So... do police officers care if you have a gun?... They dont really have any choice. They work for you. They recieve their power from you. If a civilian has two guns? yeah it might raise some suspicion... but once a reasonable explination is given... The confrontation should be over. Unless of course there are other suspicious issues like them drugs you just bought.

Sorry for the long rant... But this is a personal sore point.


Glenn D
 
I know around here the rural areas are more open to CWW whereas the City LEO's tend to frown on it. I know alot has to do with the individual officer and civilian but does department dictate policy or is up to the officer?
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I'm not being a jerk here, but what does it matter? Some officers may like it, others may not, but so long as you have your license and are following all laws concerning CCW, who cares what an individual officer may think?

As Glenn pointed out above (in a round about way), they don't make they laws so their opinion is just that, an opinion.
 
I'm not being a jerk here, but what does it matter? Some officers may like it, others may not, but so long as you have your license and are following all laws concerning CCW, who cares what an individual officer may think?
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In a perfect world you are correct sir. CCW laws in most states have a lot of grey area, as nothing is written in stone anymore. In an area with a political philosophy that's anti CCW I'm sure there's a 1001 things that will make you spend money on a lawyer. As I live in a rural area most local officers are good with it . But I'm finding more and more state agencys seem to want to challenge it. As the state issues the permit I don't understand why their departments seem to challenge unless it's political, that's why I'm trying to see if it's a department or officer's decision.
 
Not a cop here but just got pulled over by one a month ago for a no turn on red. Metro detroit area. Michigan has a "must disclose you have a ccw weapon" to officer. The cop didn't care just asked where they were and when I said where they were, don't reach there. Continued on to give me my only third ticket in my life. Polite fella though just doing his job.
 
The culture of the agency is often dictated by the culture of the political scene the agency operates in, thus agencies in gun-unfriendly areas tend to view guns in a different light than those in gun-friendly ones. Note I said nothing about policy (official or unofficial) or th law.

And to me and most LEOs I know, a gun is a gun.
 
training

Maybe things have changed, but when I came through our academy, and for years after, ANY person with a firearm was a threat and was to be dealt w/ accordingly, ie controlled, disarmed, etc. To what degree or intensity those actions were performed was left up to the officer, and usually, since the only training in dealing w/ armed subjects was w/ felons, it was not a polite nor respectful process.

Maybe its changed, certainly the CCW situation has nationally, but I still see young, intelligent officers freak when they encounter a legally armed civilian. Personally, I believe there's a training gap.

Game Wardens, Wildlife Cons Officers, Rangers, deal w/ armed civilians frequently, and usually after some experience, handle the process well.
 
I also served as a police officer for a few years. In a very dense metropolitan city. The official line of city government was then and is even more now. Civilians have no need for firearms.

I'd have to admit that most other cops I've known do have a problem with armed civilians. I dont know why... but it seems they feel threatened by honest armed citizens.

However, I personally have, nor have I ever had any problem with an armed civilian populace. I believe that most people in my city were armed despite the law. If a citizen in my city was found to be armed with two handguns by me, and they had a valid carry permit... I might ask why two... then probably procede to a conversation about guns, and tactics.

As I see it... It comes down to this. The American civilian citizen has a GOD given right to own firearms. This right is codified, enumerated, and protected by the Constitution of the United States. Further each and every police officer is sworn to protect these same citizens and to preserve their constitutional rights.

The problem is this... As we live in a republic, and choose our REPRESENTATION (not leaders) by the democratic proscess, these representitives bestow on us their own political ideals despite our wishes to the contrary.

And we the people with the interest of justice and in care for the men and women who are sworn to protect us bestow upon them extraordinary powers. It seems that these people, the police have become a political entity unto themselves. In sum and substance the police seem to have forgotten who they work for. Much like our elected representitives. And like our elected representitives some police seem to be forcing their own agenda's upon us under the guise (sp) of officer safety.

So... do police officers care if you have a gun?... They dont really have any choice. They work for you. They recieve their power from you. If a civilian has two guns? yeah it might raise some suspicion... but once a reasonable explination is given... The confrontation should be over. Unless of course there are other suspicious issues like them drugs you just bought.

Sorry for the long rant... But this is a personal sore point.


Glenn D
Click to expand...

Some very fine points there.

I live in a well populated area as well, but thankfully Florida seems to be more gun-friendly for the most part. In a more urban and crowded area, crime/theft/robbery/assault can also be more prevalent so its not surprising if a person with a ccw carries 2 or more weapons.
 
My entire career has been in rural Alaska. Except for my time in the military, I've never worked in a large metro area.

There are guns around me everyday and I know that most everyone I contact is either armed or can be in short order.

One of the advantages I have is we are off the road system and except for the outside commercial fishermen and processors, I know most everyone in the community and especially who the nuts are that might fall out of the tree.

I also go into contacts with the attitude that I'm going to win my gunfight if one erupts.
 
I really dislike the use of the term civilian in this thread.



"Besides, CCW is just that; concealed. If you have the gun concealed I'll never know you're carrying. I won't know if you're carrying one, or two, or a half-dozen."


^^^^This fellow sounds like a smart and reasonable man. It is a shame that some states codify the requirement to inform the cop.
 
I only care because,,,

I'm not being a jerk here, but what does it matter? Some officers may like it, others may not, but so long as you have your license and are following all laws concerning CCW, who cares what an individual officer may think?

As Glenn pointed out above (in a round about way), they don't make they laws so their opinion is just that, an opinion.
Click to expand...

They do not make law but they have a lot of discretion as to how they implement or enforce existing law, even if it has no relevance to the situation at hand.

Unfortunately they do have the ability to detain and/or arrest you on their personal whim,,,
Whether you have broken an actual law or not they can say "Obstruction of Justice" and there you are, behind bars.

Look, I am definitely not saying all or even a majority of LEO's are like this,,,
But a reasonable person can not expect a LEO to always act reasonably,,,
And you have no recourse but to comply when they aren't reasonable.

In Oklahoma when we carry we are required to tell any officer we have official contact with about the gun we are packing.

I had an officer pull me over for a dead tail-light,,,
Everything was hunky-dory until I informed him I had a Model 36 in my pocket,,,
Next thing I am outside the car with my hands cuffed behind my back while he searched me and my car.

The reason I had to be cuffed was "For my own safety",,,
I didn't have to allow the search to my car but I was informed that I would be arrested for obstruction if I made him get a warrant.

The Payne County Sheriff got a very calm but succinct letter complaining about the encounter,,,
I received a boiler-plate response about Officer Safety taking priority in all traffic stops,,,
As long as the LEO's have this "discretionary" ability to misuse existing law,,,
Topics like this one are germane and worthy of discussion.

I really don't intend for this to be a LEO bash session,,,
I'm trying in my own rambling way to rebut one statement implying LEO's must automatically follow the rules of the game.

Aarond
 
Been a cop for Atlanta for 9 years now and a Carry Permit is a Carry Permit. If you have a carry permit, then carry as many as you can keep track of. Best to present the permit with your license if you're ever stopped.

Ben
 
Who has not seen a movie where the citizen's refused to help their LEO's when trouble comes along... (High Noon?) When the chips are down... every LEO will find it comforting to know that there are armed citizen's ready to assist them...

Every LEO I have ever known (Oakland PD, Salt Lake City PD, West Valley PD and Farmington PD) has been glad of the fact that there are good citizens around to help them in a pinch.

Every LEO I've known is always hesitant to act (Which may get him killed) because of the video cam craze that the enemies of law and order and misguided do-gooders who like to believe that cops need more policing than Rodney King... are always interfering and NEVER being helpful... before, during, and especially after, an incident.

I have a friend who was the marksmanship training officer for a big city PD and he found himself in a very bad situation... lead car in a high speed chase...

There were three armed gangsters in the fugitive vehicle and they crashed into a fence and my friend was stopped and out of his patrol car right behind them... he had his weapon trained on the car when all three perps jumped out of the car with guns in their hands... my friend is a very capable marksman and could easily have dropped all three in a matter of seconds... he ordered them down and there was a very long moment while the BG's considered his offer...

That was about as close to getting killed as a cop can get... about 40 feet, and fortunately, they surrendered.

I asked him why he didn't drop them... after all, they all had guns and could have killed him? He said, that he figured there was probably someone around with a video camera and that idea caused him to hesitate.

I'd personally prefer that the citizen is armed with a gun and ready to help rather than armed with a video camera and an attitude to hang me out to dry.

God bless all cops... even the imperfect ones...

If you've never been there, YOU don't know enough, and you don't pay them enough, to stand in judgement of them...

Any LEO who thinks he's better off without legitimately armed citizen's is forgetting the fact that in a state where concealed carry is permitted... the crime rate is GREATLY decreased... and that fact ALONE makes life easier and safer for the LEO.
 
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"I'd personally prefer that the citizen is armed with a gun and ready to help rather than armed with a video camera and an attitude to hang me out to dry."

^^^^^^ best comment I have heard in a long, long, time! Thank you.

I'm in that large area of Texas within 100 miles of the border. Every law abiding citizen should be armed. Period! Why should I fear the good people? I've stayed in law enforcement for 25 years because of the good people, not to pick on the bad ones.
 
As long as you have a permit to carry multiple guns.. The cop won't care..
If you are legally able to carry...again.the cop won't care.
Just be honest from the begining and tell him you are in posession of a firearm and if he/she freaks out,then comply with his/her requests'..
That firearm is not there to protect you against the LEO,only the same person they would be likely to shoot.
I would be willing to be disarmed if the LEO was not comfortable with the idea I have a weapon(s).As long as he/she was reasonable about it.
All in all the cop has a right to disarm you in any encounter when you allegedly break the law.
 
" Best to present the permit with your license if you're ever stopped"

Not so sure about this ^^^^^^^one. IF required by law, then Ok. If not, there are many instances of unpleasantness, only after being informed of a legally carrying officer.

For my safety-which comes first- I will not inform unless required to do so by law.
 
I had it on excellent authority that at the time police carried revolvers, NYC would issue carry permits only for revolvers. The police were ordered to shoot to kill anyone seen with an auto pistol, no questions asked.

Jim
 
I had it on excellent authority that at the time police carried revolvers, NYC would issue carry permits only for revolvers. The police were ordered to shoot to kill anyone seen with an auto pistol, no questions asked.

Jim
That sounds like a kind of OLD policy..But then NY has Their own crazy laws..
 
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