Question for the history buffs

BlueTrain - my g-g-uncle was in the 7th Michigan Volunteer Cavalry which was part of the Michigan Cavalry Brigade. Custer had a home in Monroe, Michigan - north of Toledo. In Monroe, there is a nice statue of him on horseback - usually covered in pigeon droppings but nice nevertheless. His home there is now owned by an aquaintance of mine who is actually a "Custer impersonator" - he actually looks like he could be a twin for good old George. He has been a technical advisor on several shows/films on Custer. Many of the men in the 7th Michigan Cavalry were from Lenawee County, Michigan and Monroe County, Michigan. I have a scrapbook that was kept by my great-grandmother who lived in Lenawee County during the Civil War. It has a number of newspaper articles glued in to it that were in the paper at that time in relation to the 7th Michigan Volunteer Cavalry. Some are quite interesting - one relates to a Captain who had returned home on a leave and the presentation of an engraved saber to him by the community in appreciation of his service. I think you are correct on the formation of the 7th U.S. Cavalry being formed after the Civill War. Years ago, I had an opportunity to purchase a number of letters written by officers of the 7th U.S. Cavalry in regards to Custer and his actions at the Little Bighorn. This was in the 1960's and if I remember correctly, there were 15 or so of them - alas though, I couldn't come up with the $200 the party was asking for them. I can only imagine what they would be worth now.

Doc - when I was a kid, we had horses and ponies on the farm and I have to admit, I did enjoy riding them - but, I spent about an equal amount of time on the ground from being thrown as I did in the saddle. I have fond memories of them and also of colts being born - but - I also have less fond memories of being on the end of a pitchfork mucking out the stalls and the barnyard! Last year out here in Arizona, I mentioned to my wife that we ought to go horse back riding at a stable sometime . . . at which point, she quickly reminded me of the neighbor who did and who came home with a broken arm! Then she also threw salt on the wound by reminding me of how prolific the prickly pear cactus is and how large they get and how long the needles are! Sigh! Somethings are best left to a person's memories I guess? Now . . . . where did you say your sister worked? :D
 
To Mykeal and Blue Train

For Mykeal,:)

To all Chickens:

You have my most humble and heartfelt apology. In a recent post in this public forum, I made a statement which was clearly an insult and I do regret it. In spite of the fact that you have wings and can't fly and spend most of your life eating bugs and dirt, I should not have reduced you to such a low state by comparing you to politicians. My judgement was clouded by my preoccupation over the scarcety of truly pure lead.

For Blue Train,:)

You know that it is said that 99 percent of politicians give the rest of them a bad name. Reagan was clearly among the one percent who was besmurched by the others.
 
Horses ain't so bad and you can train them to shoot off of. They do have the mental aptitude of a three year old child so take that into account when dealing with them. Oh and the rear end, they don't realize it's back there and that gets them in trouble sometimes.:D
 
My experiences with horses is limited to some riding classes while was in college and that didn't include the use of sabers or carbines. But I have met some WWII horse soldiers, not American. That was 30 years ago and they were all old then. It was Christmas and we weren't talking about WWII, however. Of course I don't spend much time talking about what I was doing 40 years ago either (except on this forum) but I probably will later.

Horses came in all varieties and some were considered more suitable as a cavalry mount than others that were better used as draft animals. Not many are still in use but the training is still the same. It is interesting to speculate whether or not recruits new any more about horses, back when the army still used a lot, than they do now. The joke is that farmboys never joined the cavalry or the artillery because they knew the work horses entailed and that's every day. It is equally interesting to speculate if recruits knew any more about small arms than they do now, too, a subject that comes up now and then.

In the early days of armies, in the 1700s, including in this country, waggon drivers tended to be civilian employees, sort of like a contractor (sound familiar?) but that system had its drawbacks and generally the waggoneers were soldiers eventually.

It was mentioned earlier here how cavalry developed into a kind of soldier that rode but sometimes dismounted to fight. Among other things, that reduced the available manpower because the lost the men that were "horse holders," something like one out of every four or five men. In the 20s and 30s, the US cavalry received heavier weapons like "machine rifles," as they were termed, and both light and heavy machine guns. The so-called machine rifle were variations of a BAR. There was a certain amount of inter-branch rivalry over who got to use certain new weapons like tanks. As a way around official rules, the tanks the cavalry used were called "combat cars." I kind of like the sound of that term but they only had machine guns.

In looking over old photos of the US cavalry troopers, you sometimes see things you never thought about before and naturally were never in the movies. Cavalry had radios after then came out, just like everyone else but they were carried on horseback. Can you picture a big bulky tube set mounted on top of a pack saddle, the aerial waving back and forth? And finally, the troopers in their khaki uniforms, Smokey the Bear campaign hats and boots somehow manage to look like nothing but Americans with their facial expressions, grins, smiles and gestures.
 
Another take

Horses are used today by police forces. I would be willing to bet that some of the techniques used and some of the knowledge gained by mounted officers that are not part of the training manual but rather part of the unpublished body of knowledge would be inteesting to a person trying to learn more about cavalry horse behavior a hundred and fifty years ago.
 
Guys,

I have been on a horse two times in my life. Both of those times turned out bad. I would rather have a sister working in brothel than ride a horse. To me, horses are almost as bad as chickens which have to be the dumbest animal (apart from a California politician) on the face of the earth.
__________________
Doc


One more thing we can agree on!!!
 
I've been on some excellent horses.....

.......I have owned two high performance horses for several years. The blue-ribbon-barrel-champ was an awsome packhorse as well. First impressions tend to last a long time especially if they are negative. If you ride a good high performance horse every day for years in the wildest country you become joined together both in mind and body. Still, I never felt the need to play cavalry and never fired my guns from horseback. I valued my horses' hearing as much as my own. Unless your horse is deaf, I think it's inconsiderate to the animal to do so. There was a time when it was neccesary, but not anymore. I wear earplugs when I shoot. Do they make earplugs for horses? I read somewhere, (I think on this forum), where someone had posted a copy of an instruction manual on the use of the then new 1911 Colt .45ACP for mounted cavalry use. There were some instructions on getting a horse aquainted with gunfire. I couldn't help but think that by the time the horse got used to it to the point of never being startled by it, the poor horse would be more than half deaf. Deafness is a handicap no one needs. However the history of horses in warfare is quite fascinating. Apparently, horses being used as beasts of burden is a fairly recent notion. In more ancient times the horse is clearly an instument of warfare. Ask any Hittite.
 
Pathfinder

Good post.

I didn't put any smiley's in my posts when I insulted horses and chickens. I should have because, of course, I was kidding and I hope no one was offended.

I actually admire folks who can make a horse do the things you are talking about. I like your comment about mind and body.

I studied Napoleonic era warfare for some time and was impressed by the many different horse breeds that were applied either on or in support of the battlefield. There were at least three different categories of cavalry horse and the were not interchangable.
 
I think it is worth repeating what Doc Hoy said about the unpublished body of knowledge. That's true of everything of course. In the army that knowledge exists in the minds of the NCO corps. It's handed down over the years, not necessarily entirely unchanged or complete but that's how things work. It is also a form of institutional memory, so to speak. In fact, that's how knowledge was transmitted since the first man learned how to build a fire, I suppose.

Sometime the memory outlives the facts and the facts turn into myths and legends, not entirely true, not entirely false. Supposedly, when the Corps of Discovery of Lewis and Clark prepared to go west, they were told by Indians of the existance of mammoths somewhere in the West. So they went armed for elephants (they took air rifles, too). Of course the mammoths were long gone by then but in a manner of speaking, the mammoths were still within living memory. Jefferson must have been terribly disappointed.
 
The United States Air Force Security Police used horses at Clark AFB, Philippines. I remember seeing them in 1986 when I was there on a temporary duty assignment. I do not know how they were trained (Used just for patrolling) or if any of the SPs could shoot from their backs.

I used to ride and break horses for riding. Maybe that is why I raise chickens now....
 
robhof

I was at Clark AFB from 1977 til 1980 and got to meet the mounted SP's on several occasions. I worked in the emergency room and they often brought us people they caught on base illegally. One rider was a tall blond lady from Minnasoda(as she pronounced it) who rode a large white horse and had trained it to stand on it's hind legs with her on it, she was known as the white devil by the locals. She shatched up more than one local, by the back of his shirt and threw them across her saddle then took them to us to be checked out before turning over to the local police for release.
 
I'm lovin' reading these posts! As I read them today, I got one of "them brainstorms"! Doc - you know what would be a good experiment for you to try? Find one of those bars that has a "mechanical bull" and see if they'd let you take your Walker and experiment to see if you'd "kill the bull" while it is a buckin'. It couldn't be too much different than ridiin' a horse when it's excited and bucking! Better yet . . . you could put a chicken on the bull's head and see if you could get the fixin's for a chicken pot pie at the same time! Of course . . . I'd only try this after you had a couple of brews under your belt . . . . domestic or foreign . . . doesn't matter . . . heck . . . the chicken won't know the difference! And just think . . . it wouldn't matter if you did shoot the bull as you'd probably hit a "bull's eye"! :D I know . . . I'm warped! Can't help it. Sometimes my mind runs on overdrive. :D
 
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